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Calvinism vs Arminianism? Why either/or? Why not both?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by delizzle, Feb 2, 2018.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    What part of your Theology of Salvation do you believe is wrong? :D
     
    #41 TCassidy, Feb 2, 2018
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  2. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    I am saying that the Great Commission is evidence for free will and that Calvinism is not entirely accurate. If we have no free will, the Great Commission is unnecessary. God can and will save His elect regardless of the Gospel being shared. People would hear the unavoidable call and flock by the thousands to church to hear the Gospel regardless of the Gospel being shared. Yet the Great Commission is there. Not because it is necessary, but because God honors us with privilege of sharing it.

    So the question remains, if Calvinism is true, there is absolutely nothing that will prevent the predestined elect from hearing the Gospel and becoming saved. There is no need to worry about apostasy, because if they are truly elect, they would inevitably come crawling back.

    So once again if Calvinism is true, what do we have to lose?
     
    #42 delizzle, Feb 2, 2018
  3. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Not necessarily. Is it not possible for God to have His predestined elect and still allow everyone else free will to accept or reject. In other words, just because some have the golden ticket, is it possible for the opportunity to be available for everyone else?

    There is more to Calvin than T.U.L.I.P.
     
    #43 delizzle, Feb 2, 2018
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The will of the lost man is not free. The bible makes that clear. The unsaved man is bound in the law of sin and death. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    Read Martin Luther's "Bondage of the Will." It may help clear up a lot of your confusion.

    He uses the Gospel message to draw them unto Himself.

    How would they hear the Gospel call if you refuse to preach it?

    God's will will always be done. If you refuse to preach the Gospel He will cast you aside and give that honor to another.

    Non-sequitur.

    The blessings of obedience.
     
    #44 TCassidy, Feb 2, 2018
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I believe that as long as the old nature is with us the mind can possibly be led astray by the flesh.

    That is why we are told over and over again to "think on these things" and "study to show yourself approved unto God" etc.
     
    #45 TCassidy, Feb 2, 2018
  6. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    How do you know Calvin is right?
     
    #46 delizzle, Feb 2, 2018
  7. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Lol
     
    #47 delizzle, Feb 2, 2018
  8. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    O.K...
    I was just making a passing observation, but, if you think on it....that knife could cut both ways.
    It's arguably as easy to think that whatever might drive a man naturally towards a non-Calvinist view, could drive one more towards a Calvinistic one...
    There are, after all fatalistic world-views towards which a Calvinistic view would be more easily inclined such as Islam.

    That's why I don't like to presume too much on what an erstwhile sinner might think or be drawn towards Soteriologically.
     
    #48 HeirofSalvation, Feb 2, 2018
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Who says Calvin was right?
     
    #49 TCassidy, Feb 2, 2018
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    My comments had nothing to do with Particular or General Redemption.
     
    #50 TCassidy, Feb 2, 2018
  11. PrmtvBptst1832

    PrmtvBptst1832 Active Member
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    Those are the only two options except for those Baptists who reject the first four points of Calvinism and preach "easy believism" and inconsistently hold to "eternal security" as opposed to the perseverance of the saints.

    Paul got it right two millennia ago. ;)

    I think it is a very important issue because it affects the way in which one lives and how one evangelizes because it affects how one views God.
     
    #51 PrmtvBptst1832, Feb 2, 2018
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  12. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Just taking a timeout for a moment. I just wanted to make sure things don't get too heated and I apologize if I may have crossed the line in any way. I just wanted to make sure that the context of my discussions are clear. I don't mean to come across as hostile towards Calvinists. I like to imagine that we are all sitting on my back porch going theology over some beers and finally agreeing to disagree. For the record. John Calvin is by far the greatest theologian of the reformation and there is a lot that I agree with that my Arminian brothers would cringe at.

    Ok...game back on...
     
    #52 delizzle, Feb 2, 2018
  13. PrmtvBptst1832

    PrmtvBptst1832 Active Member
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    Says whom?
     
    #53 PrmtvBptst1832, Feb 2, 2018
  14. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    How do you know he's not?
     
    #54 thatbrian, Feb 2, 2018
  15. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Nor mine...
    I was simply guessing that while we would both agree that there is such a thing as the noetic effects of sin.....
    My guess was...you would tend towards extending its effects farther than I would.

    I make no comment on who would be more correct.

    It was merely a guess...and observation...
    Either veridical or not, I do not know.
    Just a guess....pasta thrown against a wall to see if it would stick :)
     
    #55 HeirofSalvation, Feb 2, 2018
  16. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Calvinists
     
    #56 delizzle, Feb 2, 2018
  17. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    The gospel is proclaimed promiscuously. The "opportunity" is there. See John 3:16.
     
    #57 thatbrian, Feb 2, 2018
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  18. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Do you know the story of how God fed the Children of Israel in the desert? When He gave the manna from Heaven. . .

    Did God gather the manna for them? Did they have to chew the manna? Why didn't God put it directly into their stomachs? I mean, while He was doing miracles anyway, why not?

    God uses "means" to accomplish His will. He uses the "foolishness of preaching", for instance. . .
     
    #58 thatbrian, Feb 2, 2018
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Then you don't understand what a calvinist is.

    Most Particular or Reformed Baptists call themselves calvinists but none of them accept Calvin's views on church polity or infant baptism.
     
    #59 TCassidy, Feb 2, 2018
  20. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    "Calvinism" teaches that God chose to save certain individuals, before the foundation of the world, to the exclusion of all the rest. And the trouble with "Arminianism"(among other things I'm sure) is that a person can be saved, then later lost again. I reject them BOTH as false doctrines.
     
    #60 SheepWhisperer, Feb 2, 2018
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