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Did Jesus preach to spirits in Paradise?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by loDebar, Apr 10, 2018.

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  1. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    I believe that, as we are looking "back" at the advent/cross, OT saints were looking forward. I will give you one Bible account of an OT believer who was doing this very thing. Simeon, was looking forward to Christ. He probably didn't know about all the details, but then, neither do many saved people today;

    Luke 2
    25And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,28Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,29Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:30For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
     
    #61 SheepWhisperer, Apr 11, 2018
  2. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    We should expect to meet Simeon in Heaven, but He died before the Crucifixion. He was in Paradise. Jesus preached the Gospel of His purpose while he and the others were waiting in Paradise.

    This is the only way we can explain OT saints being saved without knowing of Christ. Their righteousness was accounted for until they could hear .

    , maybe Melchizedek, John the Baptist etc.
     
    #62 loDebar, Apr 11, 2018
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    The Bible clearly says things we do not recognize, siting the verses . We are ignorant. God did not make a mistake.

    What part of old England? We most often watched shows or movies from England
     
    #63 loDebar, Apr 11, 2018
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    The OT saints were saved by Grace just as we are. They "knew Christ" because they believed the promises of God concerning the Messiah and longed for that day of completion...the summing up of all things in Christ (Messiah) Jesus. I believe heaven, in some way, exists outside of time as we understand it. God exists in heaven and sees all things past, present, future. God knew us (relationship knew) before the foundation of the world. We don't have to try to make God fit into our understanding of "time". I am content to believe all saints go to heaven when they dir, even OT saints. I see nothing compelling to change that view.
     
    #64 canadyjd, Apr 11, 2018
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  5. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    if God knew how we would react why go through the motions?

    It is a personal understanding and relationship
    Rom 10:9
    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Rom 8:10
    And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness

    The OT saints never had a chance to know Jesus. We all must agree with Him that He is the only way to Heaven but we must understand our souls, or spirits are what is saved. These ones in Paradise can now confess Jesus as Lord
     
    #65 loDebar, Apr 11, 2018
  6. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    In reality do we not, by the manner of our reaction to the work of Christ, ultimately, save ourselves?

    If God requires us to do something, in order to be saved, do we not save ourselves?

    Was Satan, Satan, the adversary, before man was created?

    What does salvation do to Satan? Romans 16:20 YLT and the God of the peace shall bruise the Adversary under your feet quickly; the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen!

    And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.Rev 21:1

    What will be Satan's status at this age?

    Can that be accomplished by our saving ourselves?

    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, (As a Man) that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
     
    #66 percho, Apr 11, 2018
  7. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


    Before that took place, God was in the saving business.
     
    #67 percho, Apr 11, 2018
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Satan was Lucifer a high ranking spiritual being,before he sinned. He will be cast into lake of fire. with many others.

    The only purpose of the entire creation of the physical world is to redeem sinners
     
    #68 loDebar, Apr 11, 2018
  9. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    According to Jesus the Jews and OT saints went Paradise and/or Abraham’s Bosom according to Paul we go straight to heaven so when did it change? He told Mary touch me not for I have not yet ascended to my father and yet later we see Him allowing people to touch Him.

    So at some point He ascended and took with Him all those in Paradise. We see Ephesians 4:
    9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

    10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

    He descended preached to those in torments, Arose from the Grave. Ascended with the souls and Spent time on Earth after His resurrection.

    He preached His victory to those in Paradise and those across the great gulf heard it. Knew they were condemned forever.
     
    #69 revmwc, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  10. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    That is the way I see it too.
     
    #70 loDebar, Apr 17, 2018
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Why must we assume it changed? Could it be that "Paradise" is simply a reference to Heaven? Revelation 2:7 seems to support that position.
     
    #71 TCassidy, Apr 17, 2018
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  12. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Because the rich mas described a great gulf between Hell and Abraham bosom where the righteous Lazarus was instead of Heaven where we can go now.

    It is significant that the difference was the presentation of the Sacrifice of Jesus being presented to and accepted by God.
     
    #72 loDebar, Apr 17, 2018
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, but why can't Paradise refer to heaven as it does in Revelation?
     
    #73 TCassidy, Apr 17, 2018
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Ephesians though seems to indicate that when jesus arose, he took back with them those OT saints that were being held in Hades in the paradise side, as they had to wait to go to heaven until he took them back with him.
     
    #74 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2018
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Eph 4:8 is quoting Psalm 68:18. If you check the context of that Psalm you will note that those who were led captive were enemies. If you try to make Eph a reference to the Old Testament Saints who are waiting to go to heaven you will have to accuse the Old Testament Saints of being the enemies of God.
     
    #75 TCassidy, Apr 17, 2018
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It does say that Jesus emptied that out and took back with him those who were in captivity, correct?
     
    #76 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2018
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus took out with him those who were in captivity in hades, correct?
     
    #77 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2018
  18. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    we are in captivity whether dead or alive

    It is not just the use of the same word but that the unrighteous in hell can communicate the righteous.

    More importanty in relation to Jesus telling Mary not to touch him, Jesus had to present the undefiled sacrifice to God before any righteous person could approach the Throne in Heaven
     
    #78 loDebar, Apr 17, 2018
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Except Jesus didn't say that. He said she shouldn't cling to Him, because He had to go away.

    What about Elijah and Enoch? The bible says both of them went to heaven. And God is not a respecter of persons so, if they, righteous OT saints, went to heaven doesn't that mean they all did?
     
    #79 TCassidy, Apr 17, 2018
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  20. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Then you believe Hell is in Heaven
     
    #80 revmwc, Apr 18, 2018
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