1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Where Is Free Will?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed1689, Mar 22, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well then He knows who will be saved.
     
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of course he does, because he chose them.
     
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Maybe how I relate to Him, but not who He is.
     
  4. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We will have to agree to disagree on that.
     
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As I have told you before, the only area we disagree on is unconditional election and irresistible grace. I really do not see why those are 2 points. They should be a single point.
     
  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    They actually are two different things but that is for another conversation.
     
  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    They are the same thing happening at different times.
     
  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No it is more nuanced than that.
     
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And "P" should be lumped in as well. They all 3 COMPLETELY hang on each other. (Even though Calvin himself seemed a bit insecure about "P".)
     
  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    All five hang on each other.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Loosely. Those 3 are tightly entangled.
     
  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What I meant was that if I was God(and I am not) and I knew a bus crash was going to happen 500 years from now, that bus crash would happen. If God knows something is to happen, it HAS TO happen.
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Look at how they handle the Ninevah account for example.
     
  15. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There is prognosis and prognosko that are used for foreknowledge. Prognosis is 'foreknowledge' in Acts of the Apostles 2:23 and 1 Peter 1:2. Proginosko is 'foreknew' in Romans 8:28 and Romans 11:2.

    Prognosis is a noun and it means to know beforehand, pre-arrangement.
    Proginosko is a verb and it means to know beforehand, to appoint, to determine beforehand, to foreordain.

    God foresaw His elect because He foreknew them. Foreknew in the Greek, again is a verb, so it means God is doing something in foreknowing them.
     
  16. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I would say God caused it. However, God uses primary and secondary causes to have things come to pass.

    Remember, God stirred up two kings in 1 Chronicles 5:26 to attack the Jews.
    God sent an evil spirit upon Saul.
    God sent Satan to afflict Job.
    God put Jehoiakim into Nebuchadnezzar's hands.

    Then read Deuteronomy 28 read all the times it says 'The Lord will send upon you curses', 'The Lord shall cause', in that chapter.
     
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God did not look down through time to see anything. If that were true, then He gained knowledge and in not omniscient.
     
  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If God had to look and see if Saul would, then He gained knowledge and is not omniscient.
     
  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Because those He knew would be saved, He chose them from before the creation of time. He knew they would be saved because He chose them before they had done anything good or bad. That is how Romans 9:13 shows this to be true.
     
  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And God allowed him to attack Job. However, He only gave him so much leeway.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...