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Featured Where Is Free Will?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by davidtaylorjr, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Well then He knows who will be saved.
     
  2. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    Of course he does, because he chose them.
     
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Maybe how I relate to Him, but not who He is.
     
  4. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    We will have to agree to disagree on that.
     
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    As I have told you before, the only area we disagree on is unconditional election and irresistible grace. I really do not see why those are 2 points. They should be a single point.
     
  6. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    They actually are two different things but that is for another conversation.
     
  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    They are the same thing happening at different times.
     
  8. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    No it is more nuanced than that.
     
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    And "P" should be lumped in as well. They all 3 COMPLETELY hang on each other. (Even though Calvin himself seemed a bit insecure about "P".)
     
  11. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    All five hang on each other.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Loosely. Those 3 are tightly entangled.
     
  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    What I meant was that if I was God(and I am not) and I knew a bus crash was going to happen 500 years from now, that bus crash would happen. If God knows something is to happen, it HAS TO happen.
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Look at how they handle the Ninevah account for example.
     
  15. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    There is prognosis and prognosko that are used for foreknowledge. Prognosis is 'foreknowledge' in Acts of the Apostles 2:23 and 1 Peter 1:2. Proginosko is 'foreknew' in Romans 8:28 and Romans 11:2.

    Prognosis is a noun and it means to know beforehand, pre-arrangement.
    Proginosko is a verb and it means to know beforehand, to appoint, to determine beforehand, to foreordain.

    God foresaw His elect because He foreknew them. Foreknew in the Greek, again is a verb, so it means God is doing something in foreknowing them.
     
  16. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I would say God caused it. However, God uses primary and secondary causes to have things come to pass.

    Remember, God stirred up two kings in 1 Chronicles 5:26 to attack the Jews.
    God sent an evil spirit upon Saul.
    God sent Satan to afflict Job.
    God put Jehoiakim into Nebuchadnezzar's hands.

    Then read Deuteronomy 28 read all the times it says 'The Lord will send upon you curses', 'The Lord shall cause', in that chapter.
     
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    God did not look down through time to see anything. If that were true, then He gained knowledge and in not omniscient.
     
  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    If God had to look and see if Saul would, then He gained knowledge and is not omniscient.
     
  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Because those He knew would be saved, He chose them from before the creation of time. He knew they would be saved because He chose them before they had done anything good or bad. That is how Romans 9:13 shows this to be true.
     
  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    And God allowed him to attack Job. However, He only gave him so much leeway.
     
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