Thanksgiving and its Calvinist/Arminian Roots

[Jerome]

"Economic hardship [persecution], fears that their children were becoming too Dutch [Arminian], and..."

[Brackets mine based on additional study]

Stuff in brackets is yours? Hilarious!

 

[1689Dave]

Stuff in brackets is yours? Hilarious!

If you put the articles together, this is what it says given the details.

 

[1689Dave]

Pilgrims. This was the name given to separatist Congregationalist *Puritans, mainly from England, who were among the earliest European colonists in North America. The Pilgrims left English shores in 1620 and settled in the Cape Cod area of Massachusetts, establishing Plymouth Colony. Their motive in taking that dangerous and difficult voyage was freedom of religious expression.

Feldmeth, N. P. (2008). In Pocket Dictionary of Church History: Over 300 Terms Clearly and Concisely Defined (p. 114). Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic.

3. The Congregationalist Church in New England • King James I of England meant business when he threatened that he would make the Puritans conform, or that else he would “harry them out of the land.” He made things so unpleasant for the Nonconformists that the congregation of Scrooby in England was forced to seek refuge in Leyden in the Netherlands in 1609.
These Englishmen did not feel at home in the Netherlands. They found it very hard to make a living in a strange country. What was far worse, they saw their children being “drawne awaye by evill examples into extravagante & dangerous courses, getting ye raines off their neks, & departing from their parents ... so that they saw their posterietie would be in danger to degenerate & be corrupted.” So they decided to seek a new home in America. They sailed from Plymouth in England in the Mayflower and landed on the bleak, rocky coast of Cape Cod on November 11, 1620. They named the spot where they landed Plymouth, after the English city from which they had sailed. You will remember from your study of American history that these English settlers at Plymouth were called the Pilgrims.


B. K. Kuiper. (n.d.). The Church in History.

 

[church mouse guy]

Pilgrims. This was the name given to separatist Congregationalist *Puritans, mainly from England, who were among the earliest European colonists in North America. The Pilgrims left English shores in 1620 and settled in the Cape Cod area of Massachusetts, establishing Plymouth Colony. Their motive in taking that dangerous and difficult voyage was freedom of religious expression.

Feldmeth, N. P. (2008). In Pocket Dictionary of Church History: Over 300 Terms Clearly and Concisely Defined (p. 114). Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic.

3. The Congregationalist Church in New England • King James I of England meant business when he threatened that he would make the Puritans conform, or that else he would “harry them out of the land.” He made things so unpleasant for the Nonconformists that the congregation of Scrooby in England was forced to seek refuge in Leyden in the Netherlands in 1609.
These Englishmen did not feel at home in the Netherlands. They found it very hard to make a living in a strange country. What was far worse, they saw their children being “drawne awaye by evill examples into extravagante & dangerous courses, getting ye raines off their neks, & departing from their parents ... so that they saw their posterietie would be in danger to degenerate & be corrupted.” So they decided to seek a new home in America. They sailed from Plymouth in England in the Mayflower and landed on the bleak, rocky coast of Cape Cod on November 11, 1620. They named the spot where they landed Plymouth, after the English city from which they had sailed. You will remember from your study of American history that these English settlers at Plymouth were called the Pilgrims.


B. K. Kuiper. (n.d.). The Church in History.

I am unclear about what persecution that there was in Holland. In fact, lefties charge that the Pilgrims escaped persecution in Holland only to start it here. But I think that the reason for leaving Holland is that they were the same mess of hedonists then that they are today.

 

[1689Dave]

I am unclear about what persecution that there was in Holland. In fact, lefties charge that the Pilgrims escaped persecution in Holland only to start it here. But I think that the reason for leaving Holland is that they were the same mess of hedonists then that they are today.

Leyden was crawling with Arminians who persecuted the Pilgrims. So they got it everywhere they went except America.

 

[Dave G]

I am unclear about what persecution that there was in Holland.

I think Dave's research is very similar to my own.
To me, he's hitting some of the right books.

In fact, lefties charge that the Pilgrims escaped persecution in Holland only to start it here.

As I see it, you may be confusing the Massachusetts Bay Colony with what was founded at Plymouth, MA.

The two were entirely separate, had separate charters from the King of England, and their treatment of the natives was also, entirely different.
I suggest digging into the stories of the colonists themselves, if they can still be found.

But I think that the reason for leaving Holland is that they were the same mess of hedonists then that they are today.

Again, and I cannot point it out enough, please dig deeper into the histories of both colonies.
I think that what you will find is, despite their both being a mess as mere men, one thing starts to shine through...

The Pilgrims who settled Plymouth in 1620 suffered for their faith and only wanted to find a place where they could live and worship the Lord according to what they saw in God's word, and to live at peace with all men.
The Puritans who settled Boston and the surrounding areas in roughly 1629-1630, were a bit different.

 

[1689Dave]

There you go folks, what the edicts of the Synod of Dort really portended was a boom in Arminianism's influence in the Netherlands.

Huh?




So why are you posting stuff by Nicholas Hagger ???

his bio:

A Mystic Way: A Spiritual Autobiography by Nicholas Hagger...traces the author’s mystic journey from his awakening in 1950s Oxford, through a period of purgation in 1960s Iraq and Japan, where he began to discover himself as a poet, to a Dark Night in Libya and then a month of profound mystic illumination in London in 1971, and eventually to a metaphysical outlook and the unitive vision that shines through his poetry, his unified view of history and his philosophy of Universalism."

History shows it triggered a backlash. Else how would Arminians in Leyden force the Pilgrim out? Look at how many people hate God as defined by Dordt. Had Dort not defined him, they were all to content with their idols.

 

[church mouse guy]

I think Dave's research is very similar to my own.
To me, he's hitting some of the right books.

As I see it, you may be confusing the Massachusetts Bay Colony with what was founded at Plymouth, MA.

The two were entirely separate, had separate charters from the King of England, and their treatment of the natives was also, entirely different.
I suggest digging into the stories of the colonists themselves, if they can still be found.

Again, and I cannot point it out enough, please dig deeper into the histories of both colonies.
I think that what you will find is, despite their both being a mess as mere men, one thing starts to shine through...

The Pilgrims who settled Plymouth in 1620 suffered for their faith and only wanted to find a place where they could live and worship the Lord according to what they saw in God's word, and to live at peace with all men.
The Puritans who settled Boston and the surrounding areas in roughly 1629-1630, were a bit different.

I don't think that the Pilgrims at Plymouth were guilty of anything wrong--they were saved by Squanto--but the lefties say that they were oppressive and that is why they don't give thanks. The left is no good and they lie. I am sick of them. Abraham Lincoln started the federal holiday during the civil war, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt fixed it on the fourth Thursday of November to satisfy retail interests. So the left is complaining about a holiday that dates back to about 1863 as a federal holiday. They are trying to revise the history of the feast of 1620 and they are lying. This has gone on for several years now and it is very boring. If the left feels neglected because no one likes them, they can find free meals all over the country on Thanksgiving so that they don't have to be alone. Already, the American people have decided to begin Christmas shopping on Thursday so the holiday has long since lost any significance that Abraham Lincoln tried to give it. I suppose that you can say that FDR first scheduled the Lincoln proclamation to align with commercial interests. FDR was a leftie and a demagogue. The groups who hate Thanksgiving are Muslims, communists, vegans, homosexuals, socialists, and other leftists. They have everything. They are protesting Black Friday because they think that people should not buy anything new as it causes climate change. Of course, they want to be rich and extravagant but they want to assume power over you and reduce you to penury.

 

[church mouse guy]

Leyden was crawling with Arminians who persecuted the Pilgrims. So they got it everywhere they went except America.

You have given one example as far as I know. The history says that they left because of poverty and the licentious Dutch, who are still licentious 400 years later.

 

[church mouse guy]

Okay, Mr. Dave, time to look at the roots of Christmas.

 

[1689Dave]

Okay, Mr. Dave, time to look at the roots of Christmas.

I heard it is Roman Catholic paganism.....just sayin'

 

[David Kent]

You have given one example as far as I know. The history says that they left because of poverty and the licentious Dutch, who are still licentious 400 years later.

Not all of them were. Probably less percentage in the USA today.
C B Jewson, who wrote a history of Baptists in Norfolk, said that the dissenters from England who took refuge in the Netherlands attendind Sunday services beginning at 8.00am and finishing after midday. They were Presbyterians. When they returned to England they were still Presbyterians but determined to study the scriptures on Church government, etc. They soon discovered Baptism, and became Particular Baptists. All Baptists in Norfolk were Particular Baptists, the General Baptists arrived later from outside the county. Some of my ancestors were members of St Mary's Baptist Church in Norwich. This Church sent delegates to the 1689 conference. (Is that the correct word?

The church was called St Mary's Baptist Church as it was on a street called St Mary's Plain. The building was burnt down in the mid 1930's and rebuilt shortly before the war, but within a few years was completely destroyed by Hitler's bombing. It is now called Norwhich Central Baptist Church and is anything but Particular.

Two of my great great Aunts who attended that church, emigrated to Australia about 1870 and one became the first missionsry for the Queensland Baptist Mission, and served in India, now Bangla Desh, for over 30 years.

 

[S0l0m0n]

1689Dave, this thread is one of the reasons I joined.
The 'free-will' crowd through Evangelicalism has been rewriting and destroying Christian history, much like Communists, fascists, etc. And now, look at the debased false Christianity we are drowning in, mired in ignorance.
With myself being so close to Plymouth MA, and believing the snow-job of the 'free-will' crowd all these years just makes it sting all the more.