Is it Wrong to Pray for and Desire Real Prophecy

[Steven Yeadon]

A basic question: Is it good to desire prophecy, the real thing? I am continuationist, so I am open to such happening.

I think God shows Himself to some unbelievers miraculously today to save them. Dreams and visions to Muslims for instance. I believe God shows Himself even to believers. I know stories of God talking believers severely afflicted from committing suicide. I hear of things from those persecuted or on mission overseas. Church history has a number of stories of God miraculously intervening in the lives of believers to the modern day. There is also the prophets of the early church persecuted by Rome like Perpetua.

Is it good to ask God for the gift of prophecy in prayer? The bible seems to command it. However, it seems in a way arrogant to ask for such authority from God. If new prophets showed up, how do they interact with the church for instance?

 

[Particular]

What do you mean by "prophecy, the real thing?"

What is the purpose for your desire?

Throughout scripture, God chose who would prophecy. You never see someone praying for it.

I have been taught that there are two forms of prophecy.
1) Foretelling, which is giving information about what is going to happen in the future.
2) Foretelling, which is sharing scripture at the appropriate moment specifically for a person who needs to hear it.

If you believe the first still happens, you have to discern if Muhammed, Joseph Smith and others are bringing a new truth to man or if they are false prophets. Does God need to add more for us to live in faith today? (My answer is...no he doesn't. The canon of scripture is fulfilled.)

I believe the second still happens. God gifts his children, by his choosing, to speak his word to people who need that specific word.

There are people who abuse scripture and misuse it (remember Satan in the temptation of Christ). We must discern if they have falsely represented God and his word.

 

[Just_Ahead]

... I am continuationist ....

Cessationism versus Continuationism (wikipedia article).

Some discussion on this topic.

 

[Rob_BW]

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
John 20:29

Maybe I'm taking this out of context, but it seems to be that we should consider it a blessing to have belief without seeing/performing prophecy or miracles. I have my faith, what more should I require?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
John 20:29

Maybe I'm taking this out of context, but it seems to be that we should consider it a blessing to have belief without seeing/performing prophecy or miracles. I have my faith, what more should I require?

I should explain that genuine prophecy, the infallible kind, is meant to build up the Body of Christ in the scriptures. The intent of biblical prophecy is to build up the Body or lead people to Jesus Christ. Thus, real prophecy isnt about the prophet but the good of the audience. In fact many prophets suffer greatly for their message. Here I exclude so called Charismatic prophecy as false prophecy.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

What do you mean by "prophecy, the real thing?"

What is the purpose for your desire?

Throughout scripture, God chose who would prophecy. You never see someone praying for it.

I have been taught that there are two forms of prophecy.
1) Foretelling, which is giving information about what is going to happen in the future.
2) Foretelling, which is sharing scripture at the appropriate moment specifically for a person who needs to hear it.

If you believe the first still happens, you have to discern if Muhammed, Joseph Smith and others are bringing a new truth to man or if they are false prophets. Does God need to add more for us to live in faith today? (My answer is...no he doesn't. The canon of scripture is fulfilled.)

I believe the second still happens. God gifts his children, by his choosing, to speak his word to people who need that specific word.

There are people who abuse scripture and misuse it (remember Satan in the temptation of Christ). We must discern if they have falsely represented God and his word.

I should explain that genuine prophecy, the infallible kind, is meant to build up the Body of Christ in the scriptures. The intent of biblical prophecy is to build up the Body or lead people to Jesus Christ. Thus, real prophecy isnt about the prophet but the good of the audience. In fact many prophets suffer greatly for their message. Here I exclude so called Charismatic prophecy as false prophecy.

We are told to pursue the gift of prophecy in the bible in 1 Corinthians 14:

1Earnestly pursue love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3But he who prophesies speaks to men for their edification, encouragement, and comfort. 4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.5I wish that all of you could speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

 

[Particular]

I should explain that genuine prophecy, the infallible kind, is meant to build up the Body of Christ in the scriptures. The intent of biblical prophecy is to build up the Body or lead people to Jesus Christ. Thus, real prophecy isnt about the prophet but the good of the audience. In fact many prophets suffer greatly for their message. Here I exclude so called Charismatic prophecy as false prophecy.

We are told to pursue the gift of prophecy in the bible in 1 Corinthians 14:

1Earnestly pursue love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3But he who prophesies speaks to men for their edification, encouragement, and comfort. 4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.5I wish that all of you could speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

You do not differentiate between prophecy that is foretelling versus prophecy that is forthtelling in your posts. Do you have a distinction or can a prophet today give a foretelling of someone else's future?

 

[Yeshua1]

A basic question: Is it good to desire prophecy, the real thing? I am continuationist, so I am open to such happening.

I think God shows Himself to some unbelievers miraculously today to save them. Dreams and visions to Muslims for instance. I believe God shows Himself even to believers. I know stories of God talking believers severely afflicted from committing suicide. I hear of things from those persecuted or on mission overseas. Church history has a number of stories of God miraculously intervening in the lives of believers to the modern day. There is also the prophets of the early church persecuted by Rome like Perpetua.

Is it good to ask God for the gift of prophecy in prayer? The bible seems to command it. However, it seems in a way arrogant to ask for such authority from God. If new prophets showed up, how do they interact with the church for instance?

God can still choosde to use say dreams and visions to reach Muslims, or even signs and wonders in areas never opened to Gospel until now, but the normal way is thru the teaching and preaching of the scriptures, so do not seek further revelations from God, as there are none forthcoming for us today!

 

[Yeshua1]

I should explain that genuine prophecy, the infallible kind, is meant to build up the Body of Christ in the scriptures. The intent of biblical prophecy is to build up the Body or lead people to Jesus Christ. Thus, real prophecy isnt about the prophet but the good of the audience. In fact many prophets suffer greatly for their message. Here I exclude so called Charismatic prophecy as false prophecy.

The offices of both the Apostler and the prophet ceased, so while God can still give to us insights and how to apply biblical prophecies, there is none today gifted to give forth additional nor infallible prophetic utterances to us!

 

[Steven Yeadon]

You do not differentiate between prophecy that is foretelling versus prophecy that is forthtelling in your posts. Do you have a distinction or can a prophet today give a foretelling of someone else's future?

I am going off of biblical prophets. So, foretelling and forthtelling would both be included. The New Testament prophet Agabus predicts a Roman famine for instance. Also, prophets are God's messengers, so forthtelling is assumed as well. My model for what prophecy and prophets would look like is couched in the bible.

 

[Rob_BW]

I should explain that genuine prophecy, the infallible kind, is meant to build up the Body of Christ in the scriptures. The intent of biblical prophecy is to build up the Body or lead people to Jesus Christ. Thus, real prophecy isnt about the prophet but the good of the audience. In fact many prophets suffer greatly for their message. Here I exclude so called Charismatic prophecy as false prophecy.

So the audience should need proof? What's wrong with faith?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

So the audience should need proof? What's wrong with faith?

Nothing wrong with faith. Also, apart from great miracle workers like Elijah and Elisha, prophets are believed on in faith. Think about going to the temple or living in Samaria in the time of the pre-exilic prophets. Why trust Jeremiah or Amos? Why trust Agabus' prediction of famine in the new testament so as to prepare for it?The witness of a life producing good works in keeping with repentance is the sign of genuine prophets according to the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[Particular]

I am going off of biblical prophets. So, foretelling and forthtelling would both be included. The New Testament prophet Agabus predicts a Roman famine for instance. Also, prophets are God's messengers, so forthtelling is assumed as well. My model for what prophecy and prophets would look like is couched in the bible.

If this is your position then God would have to chose to appoint that position to you. You can ask until you are blue in the face, but God is not obligated to make you a prophet.

I believe Paul is speaking only of those who forthtell what God has already spoken in His holy word when he calls us to pray for the gift of prophecy.

God has foretold all future events in scripture. He no longer chooses foretelling prophets today. Those who claim such ability or seek such ability are, in my opinion, seeking self-glory and display narcissistic tendencies that are not in alignment with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rob_BW]

Nothing wrong with faith. Also, apart from great miracle workers like Elijah and Elisha, prophets are believed on in faith. Think about going to the temple or living in Samaria in the time of the pre-exilic prophets. Why trust Jeremiah or Amos? Why trust Agabus' prediction of famine in the new testament so as to prepare for it?The witness of a life producing good works in keeping with repentance is the sign of genuine prophets according to the Sermon on the Mount.

Maybe I should have phrased it "What's wrong with just faith?" What hole exists that needs filling with prophecy? God has provided for my needs. I have saving faith. Again, at the risk of being out of context, if the manna has been provided, should I ask for meat just to satisfy a craving?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Maybe I should have phrased it "What's wrong with just faith?" What hole exists that needs filling with prophecy? God has provided for my needs. I have saving faith. Again, at the risk of being out of context, if the manna has been provided, should I ask for meat just to satisfy a craving?

I see that yes, prophecy to sate a craving is wrong. One must seek a pure heart, wisdom, knowledge, understanding, deep knowledge of the bible, and the good of others if asking in prayer for prophecy. Our first love, Yahweh, must be our first love, not the gifts. Love is also a greater gift than prophecy according to scripture.

Additionally, many prophets suffer greatly for their message. To tell people what they need to hear may get you disliked, hated, and even persecuted. Anyone who seeks revelation must be ready to carry a bigger cross.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am going off of biblical prophets. So, foretelling and forthtelling would both be included. The New Testament prophet Agabus predicts a Roman famine for instance. Also, prophets are God's messengers, so forthtelling is assumed as well. My model for what prophecy and prophets would look like is couched in the bible.

Role and office of the OT prophet no longer exists!

 

[Yeshua1]

Nothing wrong with faith. Also, apart from great miracle workers like Elijah and Elisha, prophets are believed on in faith. Think about going to the temple or living in Samaria in the time of the pre-exilic prophets. Why trust Jeremiah or Amos? Why trust Agabus' prediction of famine in the new testament so as to prepare for it?The witness of a life producing good works in keeping with repentance is the sign of genuine prophets according to the Sermon on the Mount.

revelation closed now, so God no longer speaks to us thru living prophets or Apostles!

 

[Yeshua1]

I see that yes, prophecy to sate a craving is wrong. One must seek a pure heart, wisdom, knowledge, understanding, deep knowledge of the bible, and the good of others if asking in prayer for prophecy. Our first love, Yahweh, must be our first love, not the gifts. Love is also a greater gift than prophecy according to scripture.

Additionally, many prophets suffer greatly for their message. To tell people what they need to hear may get you disliked, hated, and even persecuted. Anyone who seeks revelation must be ready to carry a bigger cross.

No additional revelation is coming from God, stay in the secure one of the scripture alone!

 

[Reformed1689]

I should explain that genuine prophecy, the infallible kind, is meant to build up the Body of Christ in the scriptures. The intent of biblical prophecy is to build up the Body or lead people to Jesus Christ. Thus, real prophecy isnt about the prophet but the good of the audience. In fact many prophets suffer greatly for their message. Here I exclude so called Charismatic prophecy as false prophecy.

If there was real infallible prophecy how would it be verified? And then you would have to add it to the Scriptures.

 

[Yeshua1]

If there was real infallible prophecy how would it be verified? And then you would have to add it to the Scriptures.

Apostle John told us what God thinks about adding any new revelations!