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Part II: Biblical Doctrine of Election

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Aug 28, 2020.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I ask this of Van, but he will not answer.

    So...those who are dead in their trespasses and sins do not have faith. Is this statement correct? Yes or no is sufficient.
     
    #101 AustinC, Aug 30, 2020
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So...those who are dead in their trespasses and sins do not have faith. Is this statement correct? Yes or no is sufficient.
     
    #102 AustinC, Aug 30, 2020
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I believe Agedman does know what "innate" means. I also believe he has correctly described your actual claims.
     
    #103 AustinC, Aug 30, 2020
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So...those who are dead in their trespasses and sins do not have faith. Is this statement correct? Yes or no is sufficient.
     
    #104 AustinC, Aug 30, 2020
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, your doppelganger has spoken...
     
    #105 AustinC, Aug 30, 2020
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I have spent days in discussions with these matters, on numerous threads.

    My position is well defended in other threads.
     
    #106 agedman, Aug 30, 2020
  7. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith. Gal 3:14

    but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by faith we may be declared righteous, and the faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we, for ye are all sons of God through the faith in Christ Jesus, Gal 3:22-26 Is, "in," correct there because the we were given and or received the Spirit that put us, "in Christ," makes us of the faith of Christ?

    Is the faith spoken of here the exact same faith spoken of in all of Hebrews 11?

    Can we substitute, "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen," for faith and be correct according to the Word of God?
     
    #107 percho, Aug 31, 2020
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Is it by the Spirit we received through the faith of Christ that we who are of unbelief become of belief?

    and when He may come -- the Spirit of truth -- He will guide you to all the truth, for He will not speak from Himself, but as many things as He will hear He will speak, and the coming things He will tell you; He will glorify me, because of mine He will take, and will tell to you. John 16:13.14 YLT

    Is that how we become believing ones or ones believing?

    One of Van's favorites: And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning to salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth, 2 Thes 2:13

    Did not God choose unto just that?
     
    #108 percho, Aug 31, 2020
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I do not have faith by conjure this is your way it's called magical imagination. I have faith by hearing something clearly explained in scripture.You know this is true. but you insist we conjure it up. According to you and Austin the Bible is a big lie Fair is Fair, You conjure your faith, election, and Salvation up. You don't even know if you have any of those things. None of your magical non sense is supported in scripture as a whole. As far as I'm concerned everything I believe is supported by scripture. What you believe is not in scripture
    Your hateful post aren't worth the read anymore. You've lost in debate so many times you want to get even. This why you and Austin hate anyone who disagrees with you. Your hatred clearly shows your position and it isn't of God
    MB
     
    #109 MB, Aug 31, 2020
  10. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    You must be having a bad day.

    I hope it gets better.
     
    #110 agedman, Aug 31, 2020
  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Defined yes supported by scripture not so much.
    MB
     
    #111 MB, Aug 31, 2020
  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Actually my day is great as it always is with Christ in my heart.
    MB
     
    #112 MB, Aug 31, 2020
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Off topic effort to avoid the biblical doctrine of election. Total spiritual inability as you surely know is utterly false doctrine. Thus the fallen, are able to understand and respond to the spiritual milk of the gospel.
     
    #113 Van, Aug 31, 2020
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Smokescreed #17
     
    #114 Van, Aug 31, 2020
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Smokescreed #18
     
    #115 Van, Aug 31, 2020
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You are avoiding. Let's try again.
    So...those who are dead in their trespasses and sins do not have faith. Is this statement correct? Yes or no is sufficient.

    This absolutely is critical if we are going to talk about biblical election by God. So, please stop avoiding and please answer the question.

    So...those who are dead in their trespasses and sins do not have faith. Is this statement correct? Yes or no is sufficient.
     
    #116 AustinC, Aug 31, 2020
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Total spiritual inability as you surely know is utterly false doctrine. Thus the fallen, are able to understand and respond to the spiritual milk of the gospel.
     
    #117 Van, Aug 31, 2020
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Returning to topic

    The five points of Biblical Election (ELECT)

    1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

    2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

    3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

    4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

    5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.
     
    #118 Van, Aug 31, 2020
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The biblical doctrine of Election (ELECT) rejects an individual election of humans before creation, but accepts an individual conditional election of humans for salvation during their lifetime. The doctrine rejects the false claim that the lost are unable to understand the milk of the gospel. The doctrine accepts that God credits the faith of some of the fallen (as flawed as that faith might be) and then transfers those credited into Christ. Only after a person is put into Christ, are they made alive (regenerated) together with Christ. Finally, once a person is born anew, God protects the person's faith so they always and without fail endure to the end, i.e once saved always saved through faith protected by the power of Almighty God.
     
    #119 Van, Aug 31, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I take this as you saying that those dead in their trespasses and sins already have faith and they activate their ability to believe. God then evaluates their level of belief and either elects to declare their faith righteous or God elects to declare their faith unrighteous.

    Thus, to your understanding, Election is based upon the human beings faith and whether it is righteous or not.

    Is this an accurate understanding of faith and election as you see it?
     
    #120 AustinC, Aug 31, 2020
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