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Yes, the use of "the" in English does not fit with the use in Koine Greek. That is why the article in Greek is sometimes left untranslated in English, and why the English translation sometimes supplies the article when none exists in the Greek When reviewing the translation choices based on study with a reverse interlinear, it is important to understand sometimes it is appropriate not to translate something in the Greek, and likewise to insert something in the English to fill in for something unstated in the Greek.

The fly in the buttermilk is that sometimes when filling in something missing in the Greek, to make the English read normally, the addition can alter the message. For example, in James 2:5, the Greek says "poor to the world, rich in faith, and...." Many translations add "to be rich in faith" altering the message, but "yet rich in faith" is no where to be found among many English translations. This highlights the fact that translators make choices consistent with their presuppositions.

 

On the other hand, I somehow doubt it was an easy thing for the 99-year-old Abraham either, so perhaps they could better appreciate the situation.

 

I’m glad God doesn’t require it now. Somehow, being dunked under water seems so easy compared to conversion under the Old Covenant. But the women had it easy back then. (Yes, I had to add that little dig.)

 

How about the ole JW thinking that since Jesus was not called 'The God" must mean that he is a small god then?

 

True, as there are sentences where the definite article missing from theos when talking about the Father, would he not be God to them there?

 

Thanks for starting up Part 2!

I have a lot of catching up to do from the old thread, so I will address those old words first before working on the new suggestions. I appreciate the chance to deepen my understanding of both Mizo and Greek so I treat this as a personal exercise.

Temple – as you hypothesise, the Mizo vocabulary was impoverished here and only “Pathian biak in” is used, which simply means “The Supreme God’s house of worship” and is basically synonymous with a modern church. It doesn’t specify Temple except in the chapter headings where the English “Temple” is borrowed. There is no distinction between ἱερόν and ναός.

Only-begotten –You might sometimes hear of “fapa mal” or “fapa neih chhun”, both meaning “only son”, but I think it is rare to see them together as in John 3:16: “fapa mal neih chhun”. I think the effect is emphatic, like the “one and only” of some English versions. A Google comparison found many more examples of just “neih chhun” without mal than “mal neih chhun”, so the biblical usage is suitably rarer.

Adoption – fa nihna. Literally, ‘being a child’. In Romans 8:15 I notice the contrast between 'spirit of being a child' and ‘spirit of being a slave’. I expect slavery might be another hard word, but the Mizo here is extremely interesting and thoroughly rooted in Mizo customs. Slaves were not bought or sold but were more like wards adopted on compassionate grounds but without sonship status. The contrast between ‘being a slave’ and ‘being a son’ is therefore very subtle. Ephesians is a bit different, it gives ama tan faa siam tura… which I can best explain as ‘in order to make us into children for himself’. It emphasises God’s agency rather than our condition.

Repentance – simna. This remains the widely used word for repentance today in gospel campaigns. It also has a mundane usage for any time one resolves to give up a bad habit. One can sim from smoking, keeping bad company, using the phone too much… anything! So you could argue it is not serious enough, but on the other hand it is easy to apply and understand.

I’ll save Justify for later, it needs a bit more work.

 

No articles in Mizo either but there are other ways of indicating specificity or generality. Are there any particular verses I could look at to understand better?

Now you have made me wonder whether there is a Mizo interlinear out there. I suspect there might be and I’ll have to look out for one.

 

The Mizo appears to have a specific word serhtan which the missionaries boldly define as circumcision in their dictionary. It could well be an invented word, but I can see clues that it might not have been – the word has roots in sacredness, taboo and genitalia. Perhaps circumcision was ritually performed on animals? I confess am speculating…!

Very good point! All of us had to discover the meaning at one point. I remember my mother's embarrassment!

 

Thanks for this clarification, I had not registered the difference between the two.

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John 1:1 is a case in point. Here is the reverse interlinear rendering:

In = en
beginning = apxn (note here the supplied article is not shown )
was = eimi
the = ho (note here the article is both in the Greek and English)
Word = logos
and = kai
the = ho (found both in the Greek and English)
Word = logos
was = En (imperfect form of eimi)
toward (with) = pros
not translated = ho (found in the Greek but left out of the English)
God = theon
and = kai
God = theos
was = En (imperfect form of eimi)
the = ho (found both in the Greek and English)
Word = logos.

Thus the word order is according to an English arrangement of the Greek words.

 

I think these four loves have permeated a lot of thinking nowadays. It crops up all over the place (marriage counselling books!) but I didn’t realise it was CS Lewis who popularised it.

Firstly, hmangaih is used throughout for love, much as in English. The distinction of storge is achieved with ‘unaute hmangaih’ – the love of siblings/cousins. ‘Ngaina’ is another option which denotes more of a friendship love than hmangaihna. It should correspond closely to phileo, but interestingly ‘hmangaihna’ is often preferred. The main exceptions are in John 21, where the Greek demands a distinction which is achieved much better in Mizo (hmangaih vs ngaina) than in English, and the other exception is whenever phileo is used in abstract senses. For example, the love of money, love of attention, love of lies… In all such cases ‘hmangaihna’ is unsuitable and ‘ngaina’ is used instead.

I think it is striking that phileo is the word found in the abstract contexts (non-human love). I am guessing agape, eros and storge would never be used to talk about love for abstract or inanimate non-human things. Could the greater versatility of phileo shed any light on the John 21 problem? I’m not sure it does but that’s all I can offer!

 

I take it the John 21 problem refers to translating two different Greek words into the same English word, obliterating the inspired distinction. Ditto for Hades and Gehenna into "hell."

To clarify the inspired distinction in John 21, the English translations should highlight the difference, such as "sacrificial love" for agape and "love of brother" (or friend) for phileo. Then it would be clear Jesus is accepting Peter just as he was, rather than expecting him to be mature from the beginning.