Featured Reconciling Paul, Hebrews and James

Well, I don’t remember accusing you of anything. I’ve stated my belief that should works merit salvation, even in part. then salvation is no longer by grace.

Don’t take that personally.

We can, however, end the conversation before it gets personal, I’m fine with that.

Thanks for the discussion

peace to you

 

Well, you have misrepresented me, whether intentionally or not, that I'm espousing a 'merit-based' salvation. I'm espousing scripture, which you seem to be unable to cope with. In no way shape fashion or form am I saying we are saved by works. Our justification is 100% by God's grace, NOT by the letter of the law.

 

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Good works have nothing to do with being Justified and now having eternal life in Christ!

 

Yes I agree. 2 comes before 3.

Yes I agree. That is A point, but there's much more to be gleaned from Ro 2 than only that. "Jews are no better than Gentiles" is a consistent, oft repeated theme throughout the epistle.

K.

K.

K.

K. But the fact still remains that God is going to render to every man according to their works, period. This is crystal clear plain from scripture and it seems to me that you 'faith alone' people have taken an 'ostrich approach' to this and have pretended that it's not there. Well, it's there!

 

AMEN!!!... Brother Glen... Three thumbs up for the three and one Godhead!!!... And three exclamation points for declaration.

 

Every one of us are espousing scripture. The question is whether we are rightly understanding scripture.

I am happy to see you acknowledge that our salvation is 100% by grace. By grace, God gifts us with faith to believe that Jesus substitutional atonement has imputed his righteousness. Therefore we are justified by faith, apart from works of the flesh. The very letter you are quoting shares this truth in full as you read the entire letter. Sniping a few verses out of context is not a good way to establish theology.

 

One thing that would help don’t stop at verse 9 in Ephesians 2, because the Apostle explains it will in verse 10:
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in. Ephesians 2:10

Paul state that we are not saved by our own works in Ephesians 2:8-9; but states in verse 10 in Christ Jesus we will do good works or basically the Holy Spirit will work in our life’s to produce His good work(s) or fruit. This is what James refers to as works that show true faith. Jesus refers to in Matthew 7:16-20.

Many believe that Hebrews 6:1-9 speaks of Christian falling from grace. But IMHO it speaks more to telling the difference between a true Believer and one who makes a false profession. For once again a verse 10, give great clearance to the subject:
For God is not unrighteousness to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward His Name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. Hebrew 6:10
Here the true Believers are allowing God’s Spirit to produce His fruit(s) in their life.

 

It is true that all Scripture is profitable but is it not interesting that James is addressed to the twelve tribes, a group that the reformed think has been replaced by...themselves.

Paul clearly states that we are saved by Gods grace through faith. The trick is to find a solution to the assertion that James teaches that works somehow play into salvation. If the reformed think that the solution is that the believer must perform works to prove that they have the free gift of salvation, then salvation is not a free gift of grace, it is the results of at least some small measure of works. While Biblically incorrect, the catholics are at least transparent where the reformed are subtle.

Personally I don't think any man can read the heart of another nor do I think any man is able to show works offered strictly for the glory of God. Moses, a man who accomplished much for the Kingdom was not immune to sin and thus faltered in this area. Daniel did not have a full understanding of the ways of God so I doubt that any of us, reformed or otherwise do either.

Jesus told the woman at the well that one day we will worship God in spirit and in truth. Speaking only for me, I get the truth from the words of Scripture. I don't think Scripture can avoid speaking about works since that is the default mode of worship of the natural man. It seems reasonable enough to me that if I can do a good work purely for the advancement of the kingdom with no tinge of self promotion then that work would be acceptable but who can really do that?

 

Read Romans 9-11 and you will see there is no replacement. Such a label comes from those who do not understand the elective work of God. Both James and Paul are in perfect agreement. It is the legalist who misunderstands both and thus miss the gospel of grace expressed by both.

 

Good works are the fruit and evidence that one has really been saved....

 

Both Jews and Gentiles saved by same Lord Jesus, both now part of true Israel of God!

 

It seems to me that the mode of operation of the reformed crowd is to repeat the same thing over and over, offering up free lecture series to those who disagree with the hope that the opposition will throw up the white flag and the reformed crowd will thus win the war for the glorious cause of Calvinism.

 

How so my brother?

 

Would you rather be ignored?

The same truth keeps being shared and you keep throwing it away. Now where do you suppose the problem lies?

 

And those who oppose the doctrines of grace presume to know what motivates the “reformed crowd”.

I “repeat” scripture over and over to further the cause of Christ in the world, not the “cause of Calvinism”

peace to you

 

I could say the same exact thing in my defense

 

Im not questioning your motives. I’m not presuming to know your motives for making the comments.

You claim the “Calvinist crowd” is only concerned about the “cause of Calvinism”. That is untrue.

peace to you