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Featured Augustine's Heresy on Salvation by Works

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, May 26, 2022.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    “The Christians of Carthage have an excellent name for the sacraments, when they say that baptism is nothing else than "salvation," and the sacrament of the body of Christ nothing else than "life." Whence, however, was this derived, but from that primitive, as I suppose, and apostolic tradition, by which the Churches of Christ maintain it to be an inherent principle, that without baptism and partaking of the supper of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and everlasting life? So much also does Scripture testify, according to the words which we already quoted. For wherein does their opinion, who designate baptism by the term salvation, differ from what is written: "He saved us by the washing of regeneration?" Titus 3:5 or from Peter's statement: "The like figure whereunto even baptism does also now save us?" 1 Peter 3:21 And what else do they say who call the sacrament of the Lord's Supper life, than that which is written: "I am the living bread which came down from heaven;" John 6:51 and "The bread that I shall give is my flesh, for the life of the world;" John 6:51 and "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you shall have no life in you?" John 6:53 If, therefore, as so many and such divine witnesses agree, neither salvation nor eternal life can be hoped for by any man without baptism and the Lord's body and blood, it is vain to promise these blessings to infants without them. Moreover, if it be only sins that separate man from salvation and eternal life, there is nothing else in infants which these sacraments can be the means of removing, but the guilt of sin — respecting which guilty nature it is written, that "no one is clean, not even if his life be only that of a day." Job 14:4 Whence also that exclamation of the Psalmist: "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me!" This is either said in the person of our common humanity, or if of himself only David speaks, it does not imply that he was born of fornication, but in lawful wedlock. We therefore ought not to doubt that even for infants yet to be baptized was that precious blood shed, which previous to its actual effusion was so given, and applied in the sacrament, that it was said, "This is my blood, which shall be shed for many for the remission of sins." Matthew 26:28 Now they who will not allow that they are under sin, deny that there is any liberation. For what is there that men are liberated from, if they are held to be bound by no bondage of sin?” (Augustine; On Merit and the Forgiveness of Sins, and the Baptism of Infants, Book I, Chapter 34 Baptism is Called Salvation, and the Eucharist, Life, by the Christians of Carthage)

    And other shocking HERESIES!

    CHURCH FATHERS: On Merit and the Forgiveness of Sins, and the Baptism of Infants, Book I (Augustine)
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    :Roflmao Sounds like a tabloid headline.

    That being said, Augustine had a point when he said that the Blood and the Body were so tied to the ordinances that Christ and His Apostles employed language that made them seem one and the same.

    Of course the act of baptism does not save us, but one's confession is not complete without it, and one cannot be considered a member of Christ without it. Even in regions of intense persecution, one is baptized into Christ.

    And of course our life does not come through the bread, but if one stops coming to the table, his life is not being sustained.
     
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    the thief on the cross was not baptized, so I assume not a member of Christ?
     
  4. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    I Corinthians 1:14

    I thank God that I baptized none except Gaius and Crispus

    if baptism is necessary for “full salvation” shouldnt Paul have wanted to baptize everyone? Should we be baptized of course, we should always be obedient.

    what about Colossians, where Paul writes, “Ye are complete in Him”
     
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  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    as in John 4:2, "although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples"
     
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  6. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I knew this would come up. But like the Ethiopian Eunuch said, what doth hinder me to be baptized? If the thief were not on the cross, and then refused, his confession would be incomplete. And fear of death is not a valid hinderance.
     
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Augustine was like most of the other Church Fathers: a mixture of good, not so good, and downright dreadful.
     
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  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And yet another attempt (failed) by @SavedByGrace to discredit Calvinism by assuming we follow men rather than Scripture.... :rolleyes:
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    why don't you prove the words of Augustine to be right from the Bible! See also the link at the bottom of the OP, and again give Scriptures to show that this is not heresy. It is easy to make your one line comments that are usually hot air, but as usual you FAIL to provide Bible support!
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    yeah, like his acceptance of the heretical Ransom Theory of the Death of Jesus Christ, which Augustine, along with others, say was paid to the devil! This is BLASPHEMY!
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    if water baptism can save a single sinner, then there was no need for Jesus to have died!

    The Bible says, "without the shedding of BLOOD, there is no forgiveness" (Hebrews 9:22)

    NOT, "blood and water baptism"

    "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life" (Leviticus 17:11)
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I know from other things that you have said on BB, that you have difficulties in understanding the English language. Can you see the word Calvin anywhere in the OP?
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another thread where the distinction between water baptism, performed by the hands of people, and spiritual baptism, performed by Christ (or the Holy Spirit acting as His agent). I think we can infer that due to the reference to "sacraments" water baptism is in view. And like "transubstantiation" the idea water baptism having anything to do with the washing of regeneration is idiotic speculation.

    The "ark" of Christ corresponds to Noah's ark saving the eight from the flood waters. When God places individuals into Christ, into His propitiatory shelter, this baptism into Christ (Romans 6:3) results in being saved. And that spiritual baptism is what is in view in 1 Peter 3:21.
     
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  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Salvation by water baptism is a demonic HERESY!
     
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  15. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    Tell it to the Anglican Church.
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    was Augustine an Anglican?
     
  17. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. But do not they share water baptism for salvation?
     
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    He was saved, but he had no opportunity to get water baptized, but those of us saved and able to do that should!
     
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  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    many true born again Christians don't get baptized in water, and are surely in heaven!
     
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  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I d
    Didn't say you did, just know that is where this is ultimately going because you are a one trick pony.
     
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