1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Augustine's Heresy on Salvation by Works

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, May 26, 2022.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,726
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    “The Christians of Carthage have an excellent name for the sacraments, when they say that baptism is nothing else than "salvation," and the sacrament of the body of Christ nothing else than "life." Whence, however, was this derived, but from that primitive, as I suppose, and apostolic tradition, by which the Churches of Christ maintain it to be an inherent principle, that without baptism and partaking of the supper of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and everlasting life? So much also does Scripture testify, according to the words which we already quoted. For wherein does their opinion, who designate baptism by the term salvation, differ from what is written: "He saved us by the washing of regeneration?" Titus 3:5 or from Peter's statement: "The like figure whereunto even baptism does also now save us?" 1 Peter 3:21 And what else do they say who call the sacrament of the Lord's Supper life, than that which is written: "I am the living bread which came down from heaven;" John 6:51 and "The bread that I shall give is my flesh, for the life of the world;" John 6:51 and "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you shall have no life in you?" John 6:53 If, therefore, as so many and such divine witnesses agree, neither salvation nor eternal life can be hoped for by any man without baptism and the Lord's body and blood, it is vain to promise these blessings to infants without them. Moreover, if it be only sins that separate man from salvation and eternal life, there is nothing else in infants which these sacraments can be the means of removing, but the guilt of sin — respecting which guilty nature it is written, that "no one is clean, not even if his life be only that of a day." Job 14:4 Whence also that exclamation of the Psalmist: "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me!" This is either said in the person of our common humanity, or if of himself only David speaks, it does not imply that he was born of fornication, but in lawful wedlock. We therefore ought not to doubt that even for infants yet to be baptized was that precious blood shed, which previous to its actual effusion was so given, and applied in the sacrament, that it was said, "This is my blood, which shall be shed for many for the remission of sins." Matthew 26:28 Now they who will not allow that they are under sin, deny that there is any liberation. For what is there that men are liberated from, if they are held to be bound by no bondage of sin?” (Augustine; On Merit and the Forgiveness of Sins, and the Baptism of Infants, Book I, Chapter 34 Baptism is Called Salvation, and the Eucharist, Life, by the Christians of Carthage)

    And other shocking HERESIES!

    CHURCH FATHERS: On Merit and the Forgiveness of Sins, and the Baptism of Infants, Book I (Augustine)
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    19,919
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Faith:
    Baptist
    :Roflmao Sounds like a tabloid headline.

    That being said, Augustine had a point when he said that the Blood and the Body were so tied to the ordinances that Christ and His Apostles employed language that made them seem one and the same.

    Of course the act of baptism does not save us, but one's confession is not complete without it, and one cannot be considered a member of Christ without it. Even in regions of intense persecution, one is baptized into Christ.

    And of course our life does not come through the bread, but if one stops coming to the table, his life is not being sustained.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,726
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    the thief on the cross was not baptized, so I assume not a member of Christ?
     
  4. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I Corinthians 1:14

    I thank God that I baptized none except Gaius and Crispus

    if baptism is necessary for “full salvation” shouldnt Paul have wanted to baptize everyone? Should we be baptized of course, we should always be obedient.

    what about Colossians, where Paul writes, “Ye are complete in Him”
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,726
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    as in John 4:2, "although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples"
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    19,919
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I knew this would come up. But like the Ethiopian Eunuch said, what doth hinder me to be baptized? If the thief were not on the cross, and then refused, his confession would be incomplete. And fear of death is not a valid hinderance.
     
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    7,642
    Likes Received:
    1,928
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Augustine was like most of the other Church Fathers: a mixture of good, not so good, and downright dreadful.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,668
    Likes Received:
    1,806
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And yet another attempt (failed) by @SavedByGrace to discredit Calvinism by assuming we follow men rather than Scripture.... :rolleyes:
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,726
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    why don't you prove the words of Augustine to be right from the Bible! See also the link at the bottom of the OP, and again give Scriptures to show that this is not heresy. It is easy to make your one line comments that are usually hot air, but as usual you FAIL to provide Bible support!
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,726
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    yeah, like his acceptance of the heretical Ransom Theory of the Death of Jesus Christ, which Augustine, along with others, say was paid to the devil! This is BLASPHEMY!
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,726
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    if water baptism can save a single sinner, then there was no need for Jesus to have died!

    The Bible says, "without the shedding of BLOOD, there is no forgiveness" (Hebrews 9:22)

    NOT, "blood and water baptism"

    "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life" (Leviticus 17:11)
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,726
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I know from other things that you have said on BB, that you have difficulties in understanding the English language. Can you see the word Calvin anywhere in the OP?
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    21,898
    Likes Received:
    783
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another thread where the distinction between water baptism, performed by the hands of people, and spiritual baptism, performed by Christ (or the Holy Spirit acting as His agent). I think we can infer that due to the reference to "sacraments" water baptism is in view. And like "transubstantiation" the idea water baptism having anything to do with the washing of regeneration is idiotic speculation.

    The "ark" of Christ corresponds to Noah's ark saving the eight from the flood waters. When God places individuals into Christ, into His propitiatory shelter, this baptism into Christ (Romans 6:3) results in being saved. And that spiritual baptism is what is in view in 1 Peter 3:21.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,726
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Salvation by water baptism is a demonic HERESY!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    240
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Tell it to the Anglican Church.
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,726
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    was Augustine an Anglican?
     
  17. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    240
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't think so. But do not they share water baptism for salvation?
     
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,593
    Likes Received:
    222
    He was saved, but he had no opportunity to get water baptized, but those of us saved and able to do that should!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,726
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    many true born again Christians don't get baptized in water, and are surely in heaven!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,668
    Likes Received:
    1,806
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I d
    Didn't say you did, just know that is where this is ultimately going because you are a one trick pony.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
Loading...