Christ Died for Our Sins

[37818]

On that you and I agree. And you are not espousing it. You are conditioning salvation on the sinner if you truly believe that the sinner somehow has to rise above his fallen, dead spiritual nature and manufacture true faith and look only to Christ as the LORD our Righteousness and look to no action or effort on his part in order to be regenerated. That you espouse that the sinner can believe without being regenerated first shows that you that you are somewhere on the false teaching continuum of Pelegianism, Semi-Pelagianism, Free Willism.

As Jonah said in Jonah 2:9, "Salvation is of the LORD." It is not of man in any way, shape, or form. From this, I shall not be moved.

And so John 1:13 teaches as well. It is God who does the saving, not our believing.

Question: why is God giving authority to the one receiving before God makes one His child? John 1:12-13.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He who believes, is born of God; for true faith in Christ, is the effect and proof of the new birth;

so is new birth the result of grace or is faith the effect of new birth.

The statement contradicts itself

 

[Eternally Grateful]

John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

"Were born". "Were" is past tense. It precedes believing.

Again this makes sense. Recieved is past tense also. which means believe was in past tense. to say this proves new birth came first is nonsensical.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

Faith is a gift from God. God does not give faith to reprobates but to His elect.

If this is true. NNE WOULD BE SAVED

because everyone is born a reprobate

Ezekiel 16:6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.

God is the one that gives spiritual life. A spiritually dead person can do nothing to save himself. It is nonsensical from a Biblical perspective to think that he can.

Your right a spiritually person can do nothing to save himself. That's why they must become bankrupt and call out to the one who can save them (like the tax collector)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Greek is γεννηθη ανωθεν born over, not γεννηθη εκ ανωθεν born from above.

amen,

Born again, or born over or reborn..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Greek is rarely as straghtforward as we might like it to be.
ανωθεν is translated as 'again' in Galatians 4:9. It is also translated as 'from the beginning' in Luke 1:3.
The New Birth also appears in 1 Peter 1:3, but with a quite different Greek construction.
The reason it is translated as 'again in John 3:3 is because that is what Nicodemus understood it to mean. However, it may very well be that the Holy Spirit selected ανωθεν precisely because of its double meaning. "Nicodemus," Our Lord is saying, "you need a new birth; one that all your outward piety and book-learning cannot give you. You need a birth that comes from above."

Jesus called it born of the spirit in the same passage

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[37818]

Wrap your head around this:
Belief precedes the salvation from monergism for the believer to have the right to receive the salvation which is wholly do to monergism. It is not merited in any way. John 1:11-13.

 

[Alan Gross]

Born over is a literal translation. And ανωθεν in some of the other places it is indeed literally translated from above without the other Greek word. The need to be born again is to meet the requirements found in Mark 10:15.

I am going to say that, "15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein", is concerning Saved souls, being Humble as a child, to be used and effective in The Kingdom of God (and nothing to do with Salvation).

The requirement to be Born Again is to be lost, without hope or strength, and ungodly, before a Sinless Almighty, Holy God. A quilty sinner in need of a Savior. Jesus is The Savior.

 

[KenH]

so is new birth the result of grace or is faith the effect of new birth.

The statement contradicts itself

The new birth, or regeneration, is only by the sovereign grace of God for His elect. True, saving faith is the result of the new birth.

 

[KenH]

because everyone is born a reprobate

There are the elect and there are the reprobates. God determined this before the world began. The elect are born spiritually dead as a result of Adam's sin, but they are God's elect. I am using the term reprobate to refer to those whom God did not elect.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

[37818]

I am going to say that, "15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein", is concerning Saved souls, being Humble as a child, to be used and effective in The Kingdom of God (and nothing to do with Salvation).

The requirement to be Born Again is to be lost, without hope or strength, and ungodly, before a Sinless Almighty, Holy God. A quilty sinner in need of a Savior. Jesus is The Savior.

We disagree.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And so John 1:13 teaches as well. It is God who does the saving, not our believing.

Question: why is God giving authority to the one receiving before God makes one His child? John 1:12-13.

1. For by Grace (gods gift) we have been saved THROUGH faith.

You can't remove Faith from the equation. It does not say it is by grace we have been saved period.

2. He gives them the power THROUGH receiving him in faith

2 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are the elect and there are the reprobates. God determined this before the world began. The elect are born spiritually dead as a result of Adam's sin, but they are God's elect. I am using the term reprobate to refer to those whom God did not elect.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

sorry my friend

All mankind is born in sin. hence all are born dead to God

He chose to saved certain people. those are the elect. Jesus tells us who those people are. WHoever sees and believes. Abraham was made righteous because he saw God and believed (gen 12)

as for romans 9. Go back to the OT passage. Yu will see God said if the lump (israel) became damaged or destroyed, and he wanted to tear it down and rebuild that lump (Israel) again, who was anyone to argue

The context is isreal. Not you and I.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The new birth, or regeneration, is only by the sovereign grace of God for His elect. True, saving faith is the result of the new birth.

Nope

New birth is the result of

1. Receiving him (john 1)

which is the result of

2. Faith (john 3)

 

[KenH]

Nope

New birth is the result of

1. Receiving him (john 1)

which is the result of

2. Faith (john 3)

Obviously, we disagree as to what the gospel is.

 

[kyredneck]

2. He gives them the power THROUGH receiving him in faith

2 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name

You know how ridiculous it is to try and force this passage to mean 'of our own will we received Him, but not of our own will'?

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

Verse 13 is describing the PRE-EXISTING condition of those doing the receiving in verse 12, in the same vein as Acts of the Apostles 13:48, where the PRE-EXISTING condition is 'ordained to eternal life'.

48 And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Acts 13

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Obviously, we disagree as to what the gospel is.

do we?

I do consider calvinists my brothers and sisters.. We just do not agree with how God operates

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You know how ridiculous it is to try and force this passage to mean 'of our own will we received Him, but not of our own will'?

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

Verse 13 is describing the PRE-EXISTING condition of those doing the receiving in verse 12, in the same vein as Acts of the Apostles 13:48, where the PRE-EXISTING condition is 'ordained to eternal life'.

48 And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Acts 13

talk about twisting a passage to make it say something it does not.

vs 12 does not say anyone willed himself to salvation. It says THEY RECIEVED HIM.

Faith and receiving God is not willing yourself to be saved. It is being like the tax collector. and calling out for Gods mercy. that is what receiving Christ looks like..

 

[kyredneck]

talk about twisting a passage to make it say something it does not.

vs 12 does not say anyone willed himself to salvation. It says THEY RECIEVED HIM.

Lol, yea, but YOU are the 'twister' here. I'm the untwister after you've twisted it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Lol, yea, but YOU are the 'twister' here. I'm the untwister after you've twisted it.

lol

Yeah, I guess it was not the fact they recieved him that God gave them the power.

It was that god forced it down their throat?.

Sorry my freind, I take God at his word

But as many as recieved him (the who) He gave the right (the what) to become children of God (the result)

 

[kyredneck]

Yeah, I guess it was not the fact they recieved him that God gave them the power.

Me, the Monergist, untwisting scripture after the Synergist twists it:

They received Him because they were 'born of God'. They were not 'born of God' because they received Him.