Christ Died for Our Sins

[kyredneck]

But as many as recieved him (the who) He gave the right (the what) to become children of God (the result)

What the Synergist really means:

But as many of their own free will recieved him (the who) He gave the right (the what) to become children of God (the result)

What the next verse says:

who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[KenH]

do we?

You teach that salvation is in some form and in some degree conditioned on the sinner. That is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that salvation is 100% of God and 0% conditioned on the sinner. You teach that the new birth is accomplished by the sinner, in his fallen state, doing something. The Bible teaches that the new birth is 100% accomplished by God.

Therefore, any teaching that conditions any part of salvation on the sinner is a different gospel than the Bible reveals.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Me, the Monergist, untwisting scripture after the Synergist twists it:

They received Him because they were 'born of God'. They were not 'born of God' because they received Him.

I personally don;t care what you call yourself.

I will just speak to the word.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:


we are born again into Gods family.. when we become a child of God


Who did he give the right to be born children of God?

AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM.

You can accuse me of twisting all you want. Its there in plain print..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You teach that salvation is in some form and in some degree conditioned on the sinner.

If that was the case, I would teach that a sinner can work to earn salvation. I reject that premise.

That is not what the Bible teaches.

Nor do I

The Bible teaches that salvation is 100% of God and 0% conditioned on the sinner.

Amen 100% agree

You teach that the new birth is accomplished by the sinner, in his fallen state, doing something.

No I teach that regeneration is accomplished once justification takes place. Which cancless the sin debt and frees a person who is dead BECAUSE of sin, to be MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST

The Bible teaches that the new birth is 100% accomplished by God.

Again, Agree 100%

Therefore, any teaching that conditions any part of salvation on the sinner is a different gospel than the Bible reveals.

I do not teach that salvation is conditioned on the sinner, The sinner has no means to save himself. If he could he would be under the law. But the law says anyone who breaks one command is guilty. Everyone is guilty.

So God sent his son, that just as moses lifted the serpent, so to must the son of man be lifted. that whoever believes (recieves him) will NEVER DIE, but be BORN TO ETERNAL LIFE

thats what the bible teaches.

Thats where I stand

 

[kyredneck]

You can accuse me of twisting all you want. Its there in plain print..

You, the Synergist, true to your dogma, are inserting the will of man where it is explicitly denied, a threefold denial of any involvement of the flesh in fact.

 

[KenH]

If that was the case, I would teach that a sinner can work to earn salvation. I reject that premise.


Nor do I


Amen 100% agree


No I teach that regeneration is accomplished once justification takes place. Which cancless the sin debt and frees a person who is dead BECAUSE of sin, to be MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST


Again, Agree 100%



I do not teach that salvation is conditioned on the sinner, The sinner has no means to save himself. If he could he would be under the law. But the law says anyone who breaks one command is guilty. Everyone is guilty.

So God sent his son, that just as moses lifted the serpent, so to must the son of man be lifted. that whoever believes (recieves him) will NEVER DIE, but be BORN TO ETERNAL LIFE

thats what the bible teaches.

Thats where I stand

The Bible teaches that saving faith is a gift from God. Do you teach that?

The Bible teaches that Christ will save everyone whose sins were imputed to Him and that His perfect righteousness will be imputed to everyone for whom He died. Do you teach that?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You, the Synergist, true to your dogma, are inserting the will of man where it is explicitly denied, a threefold denial of any involvement of the flesh in fact.

dude if you can not talk to me without trying to push me into some category. then there is nothing further to discuss

All you have done is put me in some category. You refuse to look at the very words said.

when your ready to discuss the word without name calling. come talk to me.

Otherwise. I am done with this nonsense.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Bible teaches that saving faith is a gift from God. Do you teach that?

Yes. APart from God, His work, His people and his word. We would never have the ability or reason to have faith

The Bible teaches that Christ will save everyone whose sins were imputed to Him and that His perfect righteousness will be imputed to everyone for whom He died. Do you teach that?

Abraham Believe (had faith) and it was imputed to him as righteousness

6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

do you believe this?

I was saved for the same reason

 

[KenH]

Yes. APart from God, His work, His people and his word. We would never have the ability or reason to have faith


Abraham Believe (had faith) and it was imputed to him as righteousness

6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

do you believe this?

I was saved for the same reason

Abraham's faith was not imputed to him for righteousness. That is a horrible false teaching. Christ's perfect righteousness is what is required to stand complete before God.

From John Gill's commentary on Romans 4:5-6:

"but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly: or that ungodly one: particular reference is had to Abraham, who in his state of unregeneracy was an ungodly person; as all God's elect are in a state of nature, and are such when God justifies them, being without a righteousness of their own; wherefore he imputes the righteousness of another, even that of his own Son, unto them: and though he justifies the ungodly, he does not justify their ungodliness, but them from it; nor will he, nor does he leave them to live and die in it; now to him that worketh not, that is perfect righteousness; or has no opportunity of working at all; or what he does, he does not do, that he might be justified by it; but exercises faith on God as justifying persons, who, like himself, are sinners, ungodly and destitute of a righteousness:

his faith is counted for righteousness; not the act, but the object of it; which was Abraham's case, and therefore was not justified by works."

"unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works. This righteousness cannot be the righteousness of the law, or man's obedience to it; for that is a righteousness with works, is a man's own, and not imputed; and indeed is not a righteousness in the sight of God: nor does man's blessedness lie in, or come by it; no man is, or can be instilled by it, nor saved by it, or attain to heaven and eternal happiness by the means of it; but the righteousness here spoken of is the righteousness of Christ, called the righteousness of God; and is better than that of angels or men; is complete and perfect; by which the law is honoured, and justice is satisfied. This is freely bestowed, and graciously "imputed" by God. Just in the same way his righteousness becomes ours, as Adam's sin did, which is by imputation; or in the same way that our sins became Christ's, his righteousness becomes ours; and as we have no righteousness of our own when God justifies us, this must be done by the righteousness of another; and that can be done no other way by the righteousness of another, than by imputing it to us: and which is done "without works"; not without the works of Christ, of which this righteousness consists; but without the works of the creature, or any consideration of them, which are utterly excluded from justification; for if these came into account, it would not be of grace, and boasting would not be removed. Now such who have this righteousness thus imputed to them, are happy persons; they are justified from all sin, and freed from all condemnation; their persons and services are acceptable to God; it will be always well with them; they are heirs of glory, and shall enjoy it."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Abraham's faith was not imputed to him for righteousness.

I never said his FAITH WAS IMPUTED

Since your premise was wrong. I will assume your conclusion is wrong as a response to what I said, and will ask you to try again.

 

[KenH]

I never said his FAITH WAS IMPUTED

Since your premise was wrong. I will assume your conclusion is wrong as a response to what I said, and will ask you to try again.

You wrote: "Abraham Believe (had faith) and it was imputed to him as righteousness"

 

[kyredneck]

dude if you can not talk to me without trying to push me into some category

Dude, you can dish it out, but you can't take your own medicine. You've no problem villainizing a group you've unsystematically with a broad brush pegged as 'Calvinists' but you can't handle being systematically correctly categorized as the Synergist that you are.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You wrote: "Abraham Believe (had faith) and it was imputed to him as righteousness"

I quoted the passage
Gen 15:
6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Dude, you can dish it out, but you can't take your own medicine. You've no problem villainizing a group you've unsystematically with a broad brush pegged as 'Calvinists' but you can't handle being systematically correctly categorized as the Synergist that you are.

good day sir

I have responded to what people have said.

If A person sayus this about a passagem, I countered it

If a person said they believe this or that. I countered it. with no name calling or putting themi into a group.

If you take what I say as an insult or anti-calvinist. well that's not my problem. And in doins so You have DESTROYED any ability to have any decent chris tlike conversation, because you are in fact saying anyone who disagrees with you is attacking you.


Look at my responses in this thread. You will see I said the word calvin once. and it was in a positive sense. It was directed to a person who claimed I did not have the same gospel as him.

I did not call him calvinist.

I did not attack calvinists

I did not do anything, but said I considered a group of people my brothers and sisters in Christ.

If you do not like people telling you they disagree with you. Your in the wrong place.,

show some humility man, You claim to be a christian? Why don't you act like it.

 

[kyredneck]

If A person sayus this about a passagem, I countered it

K. You countered it from your Synergist point of view. You hold true to Synergist free will dogma, and you don't like being systematically pegged for what you are.

If a person said they believe this or that. I countered it. with no name calling or putting themi into a group.

I've done no 'name-calling', if I did, you'd know it. I've systematically categorized you according to the very most basic point of contention between the two systems of belief.

Like it or not you are a Synergist.

I am a Monergist, but I am not a Calvinist.

Look at my responses in this thread. You will see I said the word calvin once. and it was in a positive sense. It was directed to a person who claimed I did not have the same gospel as him.

I did not call him calvinist.

I did not attack calvinists

I did not do anything, but said I considered a group of people my brothers and sisters in Christ.

K. On this thread it's as you say.

 

[KenH]

I quoted the passage
Gen 15:
6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

John Gill's commentary on Genesis 15:6:

"And he believed in the Lord,.... The Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan are,"in the Word of the Lord;" in the essential Word of the Lord, in Christ the Lord his righteousness; he believed in the promise of God, that he should have a seed, and a very numerous one; he believed that the Messiah would spring from his seed; he believed in him as his Saviour and Redeemer; he believed in him for righteousness, and he believed in his righteousness as justifying him before God:

and he counted it to him for righteousness; not the act of his faith, but the object of it; and not the promise he believed, but what was promised, and his faith received, even Christ and his righteousness this was imputed to him without works, and while he was an uncircumcised person, for the proof of which the apostle produces this passage, Rom 4:3; wherefore this is not to be understood of any action of his being esteemed and accounted a righteous one, and he pronounced and acknowledged a righteous person on account of it; for Abram was not justified before God by his own works, but by the righteousness of faith, as all that believe are, that is, by the righteousness of Christ revealed to faith, and received by it: what is imputed is without a man, and the imputation of it depends upon the will of another; such the righteousness of Christ without works imputed by God the Father. This is the first time we read of believing, and as early do we hear of imputed righteousness."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

John Gill's commentary on Genesis 15:6:

"And he believed in the Lord,.... The Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan are,"in the Word of the Lord;" in the essential Word of the Lord, in Christ the Lord his righteousness; he believed in the promise of God, that he should have a seed, and a very numerous one; he believed that the Messiah would spring from his seed; he believed in him as his Saviour and Redeemer; he believed in him for righteousness, and he believed in his righteousness as justifying him before God:

and he counted it to him for righteousness; not the act of his faith, but the object of it; and not the promise he believed, but what was promised, and his faith received, even Christ and his righteousness this was imputed to him without works, and while he was an uncircumcised person, for the proof of which the apostle produces this passage, Rom 4:3; wherefore this is not to be understood of any action of his being esteemed and accounted a righteous one, and he pronounced and acknowledged a righteous person on account of it; for Abram was not justified before God by his own works, but by the righteousness of faith, as all that believe are, that is, by the righteousness of Christ revealed to faith, and received by it: what is imputed is without a man, and the imputation of it depends upon the will of another; such the righteousness of Christ without works imputed by God the Father. This is the first time we read of believing, and as early do we hear of imputed righteousness."

Abraham BELIEVED GOD (he trusted God, he was confident that God would do what he said, he was assured in that confidence"

and because of Abrahams confessed faith in God. God credited to him with righteousness.


God did not impute faith. Please can someone please show me they can understand what others are saying

 

[Eternally Grateful]

K. You countered it from your Synergist point of view.

dude I am done.

If you can;t talk to me without trying to put me under some idea of some word I have no comprehension of what it means, then you just prove you can not have an honest conversation.

when you want to talk about what I believe and the bible. and not arminianism, or synergism, or whatever "ism" you want to place me under, come talk

Until then, I put you in Gods hands..

 

[KenH]

Abraham BELIEVED GOD (he trusted God, he was confident that God would do what he said, he was assured in that confidence"

and because of Abrahams confessed faith in God. God credited to him with righteousness.


God did not impute faith. Please can someone please show me they can understand what others are saying

It is the perfect righteousness of Christ, something neither you nor I can produce, that is imputed by God to His elect.

Do you understand that the only way to stand perfect before God is to be perfectly righteousness?

That righteousness comes from Christ's perfect obedience to the law of God on behalf of every person that God elected to salvation before the world began.

You or I cannot produce such a righteousness, not by believing nor by baptism nor by any works of any kind.

The sins of the elect were imputed to Christ and His perfect righteousness was imputed to them. And it is all by God's sovereign grace.

 

[kyredneck]

dude I am done.

Dude, good!