37818
Well-Known Member
Your question was wrong. The issue is there really a gift of salvation actually available. If not, what difference would it make?
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Calvanism Disproven
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Romans 1:16, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."
1 Corinthians 15:1-4, ". . . the gospel . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . "
Remind me what other parables you have brought up. Did you bring up the parable of the wedding?
Tell us what these two verses mean to you and explain their connection.
Post # 100 , there are two other parables in that same chapter. They all show the exact same principle.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I notice it doesn't say anything about that free gift being offered to all.
@Revmitchell
Parable of the Lost Sheep
Here we see that these are sheep, not goats. The lost sheep are those in the Covenant who have wandered off. The Covenant maker cares for them. Those outside of the Covenant are not being addressed.
*Luke 15:1-7*
Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.” So he told them this parable: “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Parable of the Lost Coin
Again, we see the ownership of the object. The woman owns the coin and it has been lost. When we who are people of the New Covenant, owned by God, are lost in our walk, God in his mercy will find us.
*Luke 15:8-10*
“Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
All 3 parables show God as the Shepherd, the Woman of the house, and the Father. In each case the object that is missing is mercifully cared for by God.
In none of these parables can we apply them to the godless and unredeemed.
Parable of the Lost Sheep
Here we see that these are sheep, not goats. The lost sheep are those in the Covenant who have wandered off. The Covenant maker cares for them. Those outside of the Covenant are not being addressed.
*Luke 15:1-7*
Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.” So he told them this parable: “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Parable of the Lost Coin
Again, we see the ownership of the object. The woman owns the coin and it has been lost. When we who are people of the New Covenant, owned by God, are lost in our walk, God in his mercy will find us.
*Luke 15:8-10*
“Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
All 3 parables show God as the Shepherd, the Woman of the house, and the Father. In each case the object that is missing is mercifully cared for by God.
In none of these parables can we apply them to the godless and unredeemed.
Mark 10:45 “for many”
Jesus said that he lay down His life for His sheep
pretty specific I would say
Jesus said that he lay down His life for His sheep
pretty specific I would say
Don’t know… perhaps they are afraid to take scripture seriously
Best just to ignore them
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Your non-answer is wrong. The issue is has God required mankind to abide by Laws they are unable to keep because of their enslavement to Sin? Yes, He has. The offer was genuine, even though they didn’t have the ability to grasp it.
So why is it so problematic for you that God would require mankind to repent and believe the gospel, knowing they are unable to do so because of their enslavement to sin? The offer is genuine, even though they lack the ability.
In both cases, mankind is shown to be dependent upon God’s intervention in their lives, by His grace, in order to obtain that right relationship that results in salvation.
peace to you
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Nothing else does either.
Ephesians 113 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Ephesians 2: you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Not when one reads the Bible and understands God as a Covenant making God who is particular about whom he names into the Covenant (Hebrews 9:15-17).
All the persons in the parables are a part of the Old Covenant. They are sinners, like you and I are sinners, yet we are a part of the New Covenant.
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.
Rev, perhaps you don't understand the Covenants and how they relate to your relationship with God.
As far as covenants go it is the reformed position that in fact denies the viability of several of the covenants. However, you did not actually respond to my post. Regardless of the errant view of covenants you have the context is still the same.
37818
Well-Known Member
So am I to understand the gospel, according to you, has no gift of salvation?
Well, it's as you say, when I'm 'in the mood' it's entertaining to engage them.
Does God have a reason for choosing certain people? If God has a reason, then he's selecting based on a filter. A filter implies that there is a condition, and God would then be selecting everyone who meets that condition through this filter. Otherwise God did not act with reason, which is to say he has no reason for his choice. And if he has no reason for his choice, then did not perform a free will action.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
The Gospel is a Blood Sacrifice from the sin of some of Mankind that The Father has Given The Son, FOR those specific sins of those who God Quickens.
The Command is to Repent, based on Conviction of their personal sin against God, through the preaching of the Word, to Repent and Believe The Gospel.
There is no Bloodless "offer" to mentally "believe" a historic "Jesus", to "save" a soul from Hell.
The Command is implied, to Repent, and in each case, God Gives the Gift of Quickening to Eternal Life in a Spiritually dead soul, Conviction by The Law to Condemn the lost sinner is implied, also.
No one is saved without being lost.
Jesus Came to Seek and to Save that which was lost.
He Gave His Life for the sheep.
Jesus is the Quickening Savior, not man.
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
You are applying human reasoning to God. Scripture doesn’t reveal the “why” God elects some and not others, at least not particularly. It is according to His will, His purposes. He will have a people that will worship Him in Spirit and Truth and enjoy His presence forever.
God’s reasons are beyond our comprehension, only that it brings Glory to God to demonstrate mercy. The only thing we can be sure of, imo, is that there is nothing innately different from the elect and everyone else that caused them to be chosen.
peace to you
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