Ten Commandments vs the First Amendment

[Salty]

Texas wants to require all school classrooms to post the Ten commandments.
Will that violate the First Amendment?

Texas Senate passes bill requiring public school classrooms to display Ten Commandments

 

[Van]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

Say two parents of two students hold differing view. One is an Atheist, who says there is no god, and the other is a theist who says there is a God. Now if the government teacher says there is a God, the 1st Amendment right of the Atheist has been abridged, and if the government teacher says there is no god, the 1st Amendment right of the theist has been abridged.

The only way to uphold the 1st Amendment is by school vouchers, where the parent chose to put their kid in a school teaching atheism or teaching theism.

However, that is too deep for SCOTUS.

 

[canadyjd]

Texas wants to require all school classrooms to post the Ten commandments.
Will that violate the First Amendment?

Texas Senate passes bill requiring public school classrooms to display Ten Commandments

I could see it constitutional if other statements of conduct were posted as well.

If it’s just the 10 commandments, I see SCOTUS striking it down.

peace to you

 

[Scarlett O.]

I was always offended by the slur "government teacher" as it is intended as a slur.

As a public school teacher of 32 years - I kept the Ten Commandments on my desk along with a Bible on my desk. If students asked me questions and they did - I answered them.

I had several Muslim students in the latter years ask me questions about my faith.

I always answered.

Oh, and by the way, in the state of Louisiana - it is a law that the nation's motto - "In God We Trust" be posted where all students can see it. That's every classroom.

 

[Van]

I was always offended by the slur "government teacher" as it is intended as a slur.

As a public school teacher of 32 years - I kept the Ten Commandments on my desk along with a Bible on my desk. If students asked me questions and they did - I answered them.

I had several Muslim students in the latter years ask me questions about my faith.

I always answered.

Oh, and by the way, in the state of Louisiana - it is a law that the nation's motto - "In God We Trust" be posted where all students can see it. That's every classroom.

Now you are a mind reader, knowing the intent of government teacher, to mean something other than a public school teacher funded through government agency.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Texas wants to require all school classrooms to post the Ten commandments.

Correction - Certain politicians want to require all schools to post the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms. The text of the proposed law may be found here.

Will that violate the First Amendment?

Yes, obviously. It also violates the historic Baptist perspective regarding government intrusion into religious matters.

The government has no right to post commandments to:

• Exclusively worship the God who brought the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt (Exodus 20:2-3)
• Not make and worship idols (vv.4-6)
• Not carelessly or intentionally attach the name and character of God to human activities (v.7)
• Set aside Saturday as a holy day of worship (v.8)
• Honor one's father and mother so that they may have a long life in the land of Israel (v.12)

The only way to uphold the 1st Amendment is by school vouchers...

School vouchers takes taxpayer money (money that also comes from persons other than parents) and gives it to others to provide religious indoctrination. That's a violation of the separation of church and state.

...where the parent chose to put their kid in a school teaching atheism or teaching theism.

"Theism" is a much broader category than Judaism. Remember, the Ten Commandments are written to the children of Israel who have entered the covenant found in Exodus 19.

 

[Van]

School vouchers takes taxpayer money (money that also comes from persons other than parents) and gives it to others to provide religious indoctrination. That's a violation of the separation of church and state.

.

School vouchers takes tax money and "channels" it through parents, such that they choose where the tax money is used to provide their child's education. The program restores the separation of government control of religious doctrine from being in the hands of state/municipal government.

 

[37818]

Which version?
Jewish (the original), Catholic or Protestant.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Which version?
Jewish (the original), Catholic or Protestant.

That's a good point that I decided not to bring up in my first post, since I thought that might cloud the issue. Among religious groups who revere the Ten Commandments, there are significant differences as to the numbering and content of the commandments.

Moreover, as the Texas bill is currently written, the "Ten Commandments" are a shortened summation of core of the teaching, leaving out explanatory and highly relevant material which would allow the reader to properly interpret and understand them. Our indicted Attorney General claims that the posting of the Ten Commandments in classrooms will make students "better Texans." It essentially amounts to civil religion, something that Baptists and disciples of Jesus should reject.

 

[Baptist Believer]

School vouchers takes tax money and "channels" it through parents, such that they choose where the tax money is used to provide their child's education. The program restores the separation of government control of religious doctrine from being in the hands of state/municipal government.

If the State of Texas wants to take my school tax money that I gladly pay for our public schools and turn it over to parents, there needs to be all least as much oversight over the use of those funds as there is over my local public school system.

Parents will need to report (and document) where they spend those funds, and the Texas Education Agency needs to monitor and evaluate the curriculum and outcomes for students through the use of testing. Moreover, any school that accepts children whose parent(s) receive taxpayer monies should be required to accept ANY student, even those with special needs or whose parents don't fit the moral/religious philosophy of the school. Otherwise, the voucher scheme will undermine public education, which is a common good for the present and future health of the nation.

There is no law preventing parents from choosing private or home schooling for their children. I know numerous families who have homeschooled or are currently homeschooling their children. The family across the street from my home is part of a Christian homeschooling collective, and there are children learning there throughout the year. I also used to work for a private non-religious school here in Fort Worth, where Christian students had FEWER rights to express their faith than in public schools. I am well acquainted with public schools and the alternatives available to Texans.

 

[37818]

. . . significant differences as to the numbering . . . .

The Catholic Ten dropped the first and made the second the first and split the tenth into nine and ten. The Protestant split the Catholic first into being the first and second and made the Catholic nineth and tenth back into the tenth.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Which version?
Jewish (the original), Catholic or Protestant.

The Orthodox version, obviously.

 

[Van]

If the State of Texas wants to take my school tax money that I gladly pay for our public schools and turn it over to parents, there needs to be all least as much oversight over the use of those funds as there is over my local public school system.

Parents will need to report (and document) where they spend those funds, and the Texas Education Agency needs to monitor and evaluate the curriculum and outcomes for students through the use of testing. Moreover, any school that accepts children whose parent(s) receive taxpayer monies should be required to accept ANY student, even those with special needs or whose parents don't fit the moral/religious philosophy of the school. Otherwise, the voucher scheme will undermine public education, which is a common good for the present and future health of the nation.

There is no law preventing parents from choosing private or home schooling for their children. I know numerous families who have homeschooled or are currently homeschooling their children. The family across the street from my home is part of a Christian homeschooling collective, and there are children learning there throughout the year. I also used to work for a private non-religious school here in Fort Worth, where Christian students had FEWER rights to express their faith than in public schools. I am well acquainted with public schools and the alternatives available to Texans.

To repeat, the only, repeat only, what to fulfill the protection provided by the 1st Amendment is school choice.

 

[Baptist Believer]

To repeat, the only, repeat only, what to fulfill the protection provided by the 1st Amendment is school choice.

Everyone already has school choice. What you are advocating is a handout of taxpayer monies that will effectively destroy public education. I don't think you've really thought through what will happen if you get your wish. Another poster has already covered the likely outcome.

 

[Van]

Everyone already has school choice. What you are advocating is a handout of taxpayer monies that will effectively destroy public education. I don't think you've really thought through what will happen if you get your wish. Another poster has already covered the likely outcome.

LOL, the Public schools have been, past tense, destroyed.
School choice will require schools to teach or they will be vacated.
Public schools that meet the aspirations of the parents whose kids are being educated will have plenty of students. Schools that tell teachers to lie to the parents and secretly advocate leftist woke ideas will be a thing of the past.