Is the Church Irrelevant?

[atpollard]

Some 2025 Polling data summarized (United States):

 

[Ben1445]

Now factor in the people who say religion is very important but don’t go to church or maybe even have recognizable religion.

James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

How spotted is today’s church. It should not be, but how many times have you heard someone take God’s name in vain on church property?
There is no fear of God.

On the bright side, pickin’s are ripe. You don’t have to look as far as you used to find someone who needs the gospel.

It reminds me of the illustration of the shoe salesmen who were sent into a place where they found a barefoot civilization.
The first returned home and with the excuse that no one had shoes so they wouldn’t sell any because nobody used them.
The second sent a message back to the company that there was no competition and everyone needed what they were offering.

 

[Marooncat79]

some so called Churches are irrelevant. Yes

The true church is never irrelevant

 

[Ascetic X]

By conforming to the world, making music the main anttraction, and becoming seeker sensitive, many churches have made themselves irrelevant.

 

[Marooncat79]

By conforming to the world, making music the main anttraction, and becoming seeker sensitive, many churches have made themselves irrelevant.

Absolutely

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

some so called Churches are irrelevant. Yes

The true church is never irrelevant

Correct

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I’ve been reading the history of my family’s church life in the revival era. It involved allot of praise singing and then good preaching. The singing alone took an hour or more with the participants being the entire church.. they spent the entire day into nightfall at the church… it was an event to both praise and honor. An old timer who I conversed with told me you could feel the Holy Spirit rising up and manny got regenerated & converted.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I’m inspired by gospel music, also the old hymns. Would that we could have it once again.

"Ain't No Grave" sung by Molly Skaggs live at Bethel Church

VICTORY Album Available everywhere now:
Spotify | Victory (Live) by Bethel Music
Itunes | https://bethelmusic.lnk.to/VictoryID/itunes
Apple Music | Victory (Live) by Bethel Music
Amazon | Victory (Live) by Bethel Music

Subscribe for the latest videos and songs: http://bit.ly/BMsubscribe

Visit VICTORY website: bethelmusic.com/victory

Get the chord chart: https://bethelmusic.com/chords-and-lyrics/aint-no-grave/

Stay Connected:
Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/bethelmusic/
Facebook | Bethel Music
X | https://X.com/bethelmusic
BM Website | Worship Music, Live Events, Chords & Lyrics

Lyrics:

Verse 1
Shame is a prison as cruel as a grave
Shame is a robber and he’s come to take my name
Love is my redeemer lifting me up from the ground
Love is the power where my freedom song is found

Chorus
There ain’t no grave gonna hold my body down
There ain’t no grave gonna hold my body down
When I hear that trumpet sound, I’m gonna rise up out of the ground
There ain’t no grave gonna hold my body down

Verse 2
Fear is a liar with a smooth and velvet tongue
Fear is a tyrant, he’s always telling me to run
Love is resurrection and love is a trumpet sound
Love is my weapon, I’m gonna take my giants down

Verse 3
There was a battle, a war between death and life
There on a tree the Lamb of God was crucified
He went on down to hell, He took back every key
He rose up as a lion and He’s setting all the captives free

Chorus 2
There ain’t no grave could hold His body down
There ain’t no grave could hold His body down
When He heard the trumpet sound, He rose up out of the ground
There ain’t no grave could hold His body down
There ain’t no grave could hold His body down

There ain’t no grave could hold my body down
There ain’t no grave could hold my body down

Bridge
If You walked out of the grave, I’m walkin’ too


Ain’t No Grave
Written by Molly Skaggs / Jonathan David Helser / Melissa Helser
#aintnograve #victory #bethelmusic

https://share.google/QqENFvrrRHwQf9U7p

 

[Wesley Briggman]

(Mat 16:18 KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The KJV translates Strong's G1577 in the following manner: church (115x), assembly (3x).

1. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly

Who called us out?

Enough said. Praise God!

 

[Stopgap]

I think it's important for self-proclaimed Protestants, by conviction, to adhere to the practice of Sola Scriptura and allow the New Testament to define for us what "the church" actually is, which is the body of believers. It's the elect of Christ that He's been gathering since the beginning of time.

There are too many Protestants today, by tradition, who seem to think that "the church" is a building with a steeple on top. While a church meeting can take place within a physical structure, I believe what we mostly see today is not the model that is found in Acts and the Epistles. Christians in the first century went from house to house and gathered in the wilderness.

The model that I see today has too much focus on maintaining the building itself rather than maintaining the spiritual kingdom. This inevitably leads to pastors misusing OT scriptures related to financial giving in order to guilt trip folks into feeling the need to contribute to the building's enormous cost overrun, which profits the utility companies who have been unnecessarily hiking up their rates for years, as well as paying down the building's debt, which goes into the banker's pockets rather than going directly to those in need of food, clothing and shelter.

So, if we were to define "the church" by what we mostly see today in corporate America, then I would say it absolutely is irrelevant and always has been.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Christianity from a cultural perspective is always going to become twisted, perverted, and misrepresented.

With the Edict of Tolerance, it not only brought about the end of persecution by the state but Christians quickly became a "protected class" where the state would defend against others who may persecute them! Christianity becomes the official state religion and now it is quite fashionable to call yourself a "christian" and it is to your economic and political advantage to do so. At this point, you have people using Christianity in order to suit their own agenda. They are putting "fishy" symbols on their business cards and Church becomes more a place for "social networking" than for actual worship but we certainly want our children growing up having "Christian Values" don't we?

Nowadays, the hip, cool thing to do is de-construct and "Courageously Question" your faith! The "Cool Kids" have moved on to secularism and pseudo-intellectualism and you desperately want to hang with the cool kids don't you?

Meanwhile in other parts of the world, one may call themselves "Christian" at the peril of their own lives and this is where Christianity seems to be thriving! Why is this?

 

[Ben1445]

I think it's important for self-proclaimed Protestants, by conviction, to adhere to the practice of Sola Scriptura and allow the New Testament to define for us what "the church" actually is, which is the body of believers. It's the elect of Christ that He's been gathering since the beginning of time.

There are too many Protestants today, by tradition, who seem to think that "the church" is a building with a steeple on top. While a church meeting can take place within a physical structure, I believe what we mostly see today is not the model that is found in Acts and the Epistles. Christians in the first century went from house to house and gathered in the wilderness.

The model that I see today has too much focus on maintaining the building itself rather than maintaining the spiritual kingdom. This inevitably leads to pastors misusing OT scriptures related to financial giving in order to guilt trip folks into feeling the need to contribute to the building's enormous cost overrun, which profits the utility companies who have been unnecessarily hiking up their rates for years, as well as paying down the building's debt, which goes into the banker's pockets rather than going directly to those in need of food, clothing and shelter.

So, if we were to define "the church" by what we mostly see today in corporate America, then I would say it absolutely is irrelevant and always has been.

So churches with Bible colleges should meet for classes in the woods?

At some point, this kind of logic falls apart if we are sending people to colleges for ministry. Unless you don’t think that colleges for ministry should be a function of a local church…

 

[David Lamb]

I think it's important for self-proclaimed Protestants, by conviction, to adhere to the practice of Sola Scriptura and allow the New Testament to define for us what "the church" actually is, which is the body of believers. It's the elect of Christ that He's been gathering since the beginning of time.

There are too many Protestants today, by tradition, who seem to think that "the church" is a building with a steeple on top. While a church meeting can take place within a physical structure, I believe what we mostly see today is not the model that is found in Acts and the Epistles. Christians in the first century went from house to house and gathered in the wilderness.

The model that I see today has too much focus on maintaining the building itself rather than maintaining the spiritual kingdom. This inevitably leads to pastors misusing OT scriptures related to financial giving in order to guilt trip folks into feeling the need to contribute to the building's enormous cost overrun, which profits the utility companies who have been unnecessarily hiking up their rates for years, as well as paying down the building's debt, which goes into the banker's pockets rather than going directly to those in need of food, clothing and shelter.

So, if we were to define "the church" by what we mostly see today in corporate America, then I would say it absolutely is irrelevant and always has been.

Here in the UK, it varies. There are Anglican and Roman Catholic church builds which are extremely elaborate, with intricate carvings in wood and stone, an "altar" with a finely-stitched front cloth, stained glass windows, and more. Baptists and other non-conformists tend to use much plainer buildings. My own church has a building which, apart from having the Ten Commandments on one wall (put there when the building was constructed in the 19th century), and a very plain pulpit, has nothing to distinguish it as a church building, and there is no steeple.

In the bible, the word "church" is never used for the building in which Christians meet for worship.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I think it's important for self-proclaimed Protestants, by conviction, to adhere to the practice of Sola Scriptura and allow the New Testament to define for us what "the church" actually is, which is the body of believers. It's the elect of Christ that He's been gathering since the beginning of time.

There are too many Protestants today, by tradition, who seem to think that "the church" is a building with a steeple on top. While a church meeting can take place within a physical structure, I believe what we mostly see today is not the model that is found in Acts and the Epistles. Christians in the first century went from house to house and gathered in the wilderness.

The model that I see today has too much focus on maintaining the building itself rather than maintaining the spiritual kingdom. This inevitably leads to pastors misusing OT scriptures related to financial giving in order to guilt trip folks into feeling the need to contribute to the building's enormous cost overrun, which profits the utility companies who have been unnecessarily hiking up their rates for years, as well as paying down the building's debt, which goes into the banker's pockets rather than going directly to those in need of food, clothing and shelter.

So, if we were to define "the church" by what we mostly see today in corporate America, then I would say it absolutely is irrelevant and always has been.

Seems to me that you are using the term "Protestant" almost like a perjorative?

I would agree that certain "Protties" (Right along with the "Catlicks") make way too much of their buildings and properties! Seems we would agree that THE CHURCH is not the building but those who are meeting inside of said building be it be a purpose chapel, cathedral, arena, warehouse, storefront, living room, freeway overpass, or whatever. In this day and age where Christians are not so preoccupied with keeping their heads attached to their shoulders, I believe it is a good thing to have specific, purpose-built structures where the church meets at specified times during the week. Put up a shingle telling everyone who you are, your schedule of services and your contact information. You may get a few coming in off the street with such information but the main thing is you are letting your community know that you are there and are doing your best to "occupy" till our Lord's return! Home Bible studies are a good thing too so long as sound doctrine is being taught and you are not undermining the inherent authority of the church in the life of a believer. This is a great way to reach out to neighbors, family members, and friends on a more personal level and this fits in with the "Breaking of bread from house to house" model you are speaking of.

We "Protestants" (I am a Baptist and not all Baptists like the term "Protestant" but I am OK with it) make a great deal of "Sola Scriptura" and for good reason but we need to make sure such does not turn into "Solo-Scriptura" where we interpret the scriptures in a vacuum outside the context of the culture and history in which it was written. It is the church (meaning the collective body of Christ) that understands and interprets and applies the scriptures; not individuals acting on their own making the scriptures say whatever they want it to say. Protestants are not Restorationists nor are Restorationists Protestants! It is important that we make this distinction.

 

[Ascetic X]

Home Bible studies are a good thing too so long as sound doctrine is being taught and you are not undermining the inherent authority of the church in the life of a believer.

we need to make sure such does not turn into "Solo-Scriptura" where we interpret the scriptures in a vacuum outside the context of the culture and history in which it was written. It is the church (meaning the collective body of Christ) that understands and interprets and applies the scriptures; not individuals acting on their own making the scriptures say whatever they want it to say.

I am not sure what you mean by “inherent authority of the church” and “it is the church that understands and interprets and applies the scriptures”.

These expressions seem to be derived from the Roman Catholic magisterium doctrine.

 

[Stopgap]

So churches with Bible colleges should meet for classes in the woods?

At some point, this kind of logic falls apart if we are sending people to colleges for ministry. Unless you don’t think that colleges for ministry should be a function of a local church…

Well, since the concept of Bible colleges and charging folks on how to be educated on the Bible is nowhere to be found in the New Testament, that kind of logic falls apart. Paul passed down what he learned to Timothy and expected him to pass it on to others. Where there are areas of confusion, it's up to the Holy Spirit to lead one into complete and total understanding.

In response to your other point, I would rather gather for fellowship in 120-degree weather in the Mojave Desert before ever going back to one of these businesses masquerading as a place of worship. I'm not saying this about you or anyone else here, but based on my own experiences, most pastors appear to be frauds, and churchgoing people are some of the most irritating individuals I have ever met.

 

[Stopgap]

Protestants are not Restorationists nor are Restorationists Protestants! It is important that we make this distinction.

You're free to use whatever term you like. The only point I'm trying to make is that if things were done a certain way in the first century, as recorded in Acts and the epistles, then there's no reason why they can't be done that way in 2026.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I am not sure what you mean by “inherent authority of the church” and “it is the church that understands and interprets and applies the scriptures”.

These expressions seem to be derived from the Roman Catholic magisterium doctrine.

Yeah, I know I have to be careful with my wording here! I certainly do not mean the Roman Catholic Magisterium but there was a good bit of abuse regarding "Small Group" studies among many in the Pietist movement back in the 17th and 18th centuries where people became "anti-scholastic" and "Anti-intellectual" in response to the dead scholasticism that existed some years following the Protestant Reformation. This is one of the points I was trying to make.

Another point is that such "Bible Studies" are often a place where false teaching may creep into a congregation either intentionally or unintentionally. To ensure that such does not happen, I would see to it that the pastor and/or eldership has an "Open Door Invitation" to attend your study at any time and that you remain accountable to them.

 

[atpollard]

The only point I'm trying to make is that if things were done a certain way in the first century, as recorded in Acts and the epistles, then there's no reason why they can't be done that way in 2026.

Actually, there is … just practically speaking. In the First Century, Jesus personally appointed APOSTLES who appointed the Elders in each of the churches that they founded (ensuring the “Teaching Elders” had been correctly educated in the Truth handed down by Jesus). If we fire our pastors until we locate one PERSONALLY trained by an APOSTLE that was appointed by Jesus himself for the task … how long will the “Pastor Search” take?

Some things will need to be done differently in 2026 from the First Century (about which we only really know what is recorded in Acts and the Epistles of Scripture.)

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Well, since the concept of Bible colleges and charging folks on how to be educated on the Bible is nowhere to be found in the New Testament, that kind of logic falls apart. Paul passed down what he learned to Timothy and expected him to pass it on to others. Where there are areas of confusion, it's up to the Holy Spirit to lead one into complete and total understanding.

Are you saying that you are against Bible Colleges? I believe that anyone going into the ministry ought to be fully equipped and prepared to do so! Plus those who teach in these Bible Colleges have to be able to pay their bills and feed their families and the scriptures clearly state that the "Laborer is worthy of his hire!"

I am not for colleges and seminaries being "Profit Centers" where one pays over $700 per credit hour (Dallas Theological Seminary for one) and one has to accue a boatload of student loan debt in order to pursue a seminary education and I do agree that such training ought to be better connected to the local church where it belongs. Paul taught Timothy but I am certain that Timothy had done some things in return in order that Paul could continue to instruct Timothy.

In response to your other point, I would rather gather for fellowship in 120-degree weather in the Mojave Desert before ever going back to one of these businesses masquerading as a place of worship. I'm not saying this about you or anyone else here, but based on my own experiences, most pastors appear to be frauds, and churchgoing people are some of the most irritating individuals I have ever met.

I used to live in the Mojave Desert so I can appreciate your statement here. Swamp coolers work really well in that "dry heat" and I would highly recommend you find some shade nearby or perhaps get together in the evening when you have a nice cool breeze going!

I am sorry about whatever experience you may have had regarding fraudulent pastors and sometimes "Church-going" people are not what they make themselves out to be but I would be careful about being dismissive regarding all church congregations based upon such experience.

You're free to use whatever term you like. The only point I'm trying to make is that if things were done a certain way in the first century, as recorded in Acts and the epistles, then there's no reason why they can't be done that way in 2026.

Sometimes it is good to go back to the basics of the early church and strip away the unnecessary things but in certain cases, I am thankful for many of the modern conveniences we have in this day and age - especially air conditioning which is not an option here in Houston and swamp coolers are ineffective!