Unbelief vs Belief ?

[Armchair Apologist]

All I am saying is that "something" causes you to perceive it as true or to cause you to like it or think it's important. We used to sing a chorus in church that went something like "I have decided to follow Jesus,"(repeat), then "No turning back, no turning back". I used to love that song and believe it is scriptural and theologically sound. You do decide and with your will. But go back, before your decision. What made you think that Jesus is valuable enough or worth following? There, at that point is where supernatural drawing or enlightenment is at work.

"Deciding" to follow Jesus is the response of a regenerate man. One does not "decide" to follow Jesus from their spiritually dead, unregenerate state but making such a decision is indicative of one who has, in fact, passed "from death to life." It is one of my favorite songs to use during a baptismal service as it accurately reflects what is going on with the baptism candidates!

 

[Armchair Apologist]

The song was and still is scriptural and theologically sound. What made me think that Jesus was worth following? The information that I had received about Him and of salvation through faith in Him.

God has given every person the ability, the grace that is sufficient so they can make a real choice. That is why we are held responsible for the choices we make. That is why God says we have no excuse.

I agree that God draws all people via various means. Now if by enlightenment you mean [1] the act of enlightening, then you are holding God responsible for the person believing or not. On the other hand if by enlightenment you mean [2] being enlightened or not would be the response the person has to the information presented, then the person is responsible as to whether they believe or not.

The question is who does the believing, [1] God or [2] the person?

Why are you saved? Because you made a "decision" or because God has raised you from death to eternal life?

 

[Silverhair]

Why are you saved? Because you made a "decision" or because God has raised you from death to eternal life?

BOTH

Joh 6:40 For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Eph 1:13 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[DaveXR650]

"Deciding" to follow Jesus is the response of a regenerate man. One does not "decide" to follow Jesus from their spiritually dead, unregenerate state but making such a decision is indicative of one who has, in fact, passed "from death to life." It is one of my favorite songs to use during a baptismal service as it accurately reflects what is going on with the baptism candidates!

Yes. And that's what I was suggesting to @Silverhair. We do by our wills choose to follow Jesus. But something happened to us before that by which we come to "see" the importance and value of Jesus and by which we see the truth of our sinfulness and need. And that is what you cannot conjure up by yourself. It is a work of the Spirit. I don't think I would go so far as to insist that it is actual regeneration. It certainly is an enlightening or a "quickening" and by using that word you are certainly getting close to regeneration.

Now, the point is well taken that there is no reason that someone can't, upon hearing that they are going to go to Hell if they continue on their way, and are shown so by scripture - that there is within natural human reasoning the ability to heed or not heed such a warning and say "God save me". And at that point God does like he said he would do and makes you born again and then you "see" and understand the value and beauty of Christ's work in our salvation. Like I said before many of us sense there was some pursuing and conviction that didn't seem "natural" prior to our salvation. Yet, there are plenty of scriptures where the interaction between God or Jesus and men seems perfectly natural and it is assumed that they have some natural ability to comprehend what is being said. And there is the argument that if this is all God's sovereign choosing then you simply cannot get around the fact that some are indeed being chosen for Hell, and the argument that all are truly guilty and not rescuing all is not wrong I don't think wins the argument. So it's a problem.

 

[Salty]

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