Featured Does the Bible teach Spiritual Death?

Perhaps the terms are not necessary. What Scripture uses is "flesh" and "spirit". To set one's mind on the flesh is death.

The problem is that when we introduce terms it is always necessary to provide precise definitions for those terms (that has not been done thus far on this thread).

But you are right. We probably would do better to stick with Scripture. We were dead in our sins, a mind set on the flesh.

 

I think it is still necessary to define terms.

We can say "spiritual death" is passed from Adam (we are by nature "of Adam" and "children of wrath", "dead in our sins" and separated from God).

BUT without defining both "spiritual death" and "spiritual life" (a percise definition) that is meaningless. The issue is we can "agree" with people without actually agreeing with them (double speak) by not defining terms.

How do you define "spiritual death" and "spiritual life"?

 

For my part (as I have also used the words and need to define my usage), I believe that there are two actual deaths - a physical death and the "second death" (which is not "spiritual death" but where the "spiritually dead" are condemned as Hades and death are cast in to the "Lake of Fire"). So we do need to be very careful not to add another "death" to Scripture (obviously, the idea of "spiritually dying" is unbiblical).

I define "spiritual death" as a way of speaking of "a mind set on the flesh which is death". It is a state of rejecting Christ, of rejecting God. Men are born of the flesh but not of the Spirit (they are not born "spiritually alive") and must be "born again" or "born from above" to see the Kingdom of God.

I define "spiritual life" as being "in Christ", that is, having died to the flesh (died to "spiritual death") and made alive with Christ. The first man Adam became a living being, the last Adam became a "life-giving Spirit".

So I view the spiritual death as being of the "first Adam", that is, a "living being" or "natural"; I see spiritual life as being of the "last Adam" (Christ) and having "died to the flesh" and been made alive by the Spirit of God in Christ.

Again....we ALWAYS need to define the words we use. Many of our disagreements are found in definitions.

 

How do you define "spiritual death" and "spiritual life"?

 

You are mistaking.

Thus far we have agreed. Scripture does speak of "spiritual death" (depending on, of course, how terms are defined).

I never said that nothing changed when Adam sinned.
I never said that Adam was not originally "righteous" (right or just with God).
I never said that spiritual life and spiritual death are not actual conditions.

It seems that you are getting tangled up in things that you have assumed about my posts.

There is no need to read The Biblicist's posts because I do not care how he defined the terms. He is not here to defend his positions. BUT you are and I am asking YOU how YOU define "spiritual life" and "spiritual death". On a thread about "spiritual death" discussing these definitions are necessary and are a part of the FIRST things that should be discussed. You are, thus far, using terms you have been unable or unwilling to define.

I offered how I define "spiritual death" and "spiritual life" as these terms are not in the Bible. You seem to disagree with my definitions but have not provided your own definitions. We cannot leave "spiritual life" and "spiritual death" as subjective terms that can expand or contract at the whim of the users of the term.

Are you able to define "spiritual death" and "spiritual life"? You indicate that we disagree on definitions and the reason is my mind is twisted (thoughts tangled) but this is a bit of a silly insult as you have not yet defined the terms. That's all I was asking.

Neither you or @Reformed have provided definitions for the words you are using. It is unprofitable to talk about undefined terms.

 

I use the "moderator hat" on and off because that is what @TCassidy did and told me to do when making moderator comments on a thread where we are also a participant to distinguish administrative comments vs topic engagement. Damn TCassidy if you want, not me.

What I mean is that this is a very good topic. All Christians (to my knowledge) believe that the Bible teaches the lost are "spiritually dead".

There is NOTHING dishonest in my posts. I told you how I define the terms, that I believe Scripture speaks of a spiritual death and asked you how you defined the terms. What is dishonest about that???!!!

BUT to discuss "spiritual death" one must define "spiritual death" and since it is related to (by being a death) "spiritual life" than requires defining as well. We need to define what we are talking about, not just talk about undefined stuff.

 

Since there are no other definitions of "spiritual life" and "spiritual death", is it fair to say that we can use the terms "flesh" and "spirit" since they are in the Bible to define these terms?

 

@Iconoclast

Have you considered the possibility that people stop responding to these threads because you always devolve into assumption and ad honinem. That is what you did here.

1. I agreed with the OP that the Bible speaks of spiritual death
2. I said we need to define "spiritual death" and "spiritual life"
3. I provided my definitions
4. I asked others to provide theirs.

That's it. That is what you call "twisted" and "dishonest". You take things too far, brother. You make assumptions about me and other people (as you did with @Revmitchell on another thread) and turn a good discussion into a spitting match between two people.

Can you not just discuss the OP or leave the thread?

I will tell you that if you cannot police your posts, if you cannot discuss the topic and must devolve into insulting me or anyone else, you will be removed from the thread.

And that would be sad because I want to know what you believe and why you believe it. I want to know how you define these terms. NOT to debate you or to change your mind but to understand your position.

 

I say that is silly. I do not engage posts to discuss people on a personal level, to get to know other people on a personal level, or to talk about writing styles. This board is not formal (while we need to provide references we do not have to use a certain style, although if I did it would be Chicago or maybe APA). I prefer the freedom of just saying what I want and offering sources.

You are not the originator of the OP. You are, however, drifting far from the topic. The topic is not my posting style.

I am telling you what I believe. I believe that man was changed by the Fall and that Scripture does speak of spiritual death. If your desire is to prove I believe something other than what I believe then I have absolutely no interest in going down that path because it is nothing but childish stupidity. I cannot dictate to you what you believe and you cannot dictate to me what I believe.

BUT if you want to join the OP and stop trying to hijack it for your own purposes then I am willing to engage you in a logical discussion of "spiritual death".

We have to, of course, start with defining "spiritual death" and "spiritual life".

If you cannot do that then I do not understand how you can possibly have anything relevant to say on the topic.

 

I agree with you. The passage says that Adam was made natural.

There is still the issue that some cannot define spiritual death and spiritual life, so it is impossible to evaluate their posts.

But I do equate spiritual death with natural man, the flesh, and the first Adam.