Can you be a Christian AND (insert sin here)

You do not truly believe this I pray!

Please take the time right now to read all of I Corinthians 3

I emphasize on those at the Judgement Seat of Christ that will SUFFER LOSS.

Also look at II Corinthians 5:9 &10

9: Wherefore we labour, that whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

Why do we labour? Not for salvation.

10 For we must all (speaking to believers at Corinth) appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may recieve the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

How does blameless fit into this Bible truth?

 

I would like to see them.

I've posted at great length about saints, and I will post it again. Then, others in response come back with an epistle that is addressed to "saints" and say, "See! All saved people are saints!"

I would like to see one single Scripture reference that calls all saved people "saints". I would like to see one that calls all saved people "brethren".

The word "saint" is used 13 times in the NT, to describe a people; the word was used by Paul, Peter, and Jude to describe the people to whom they were addressing, so it is used as an adjective of address.

The Greek word that is translated as “saint” is the adjective “hagios”. It means “separated ones” or “holy ones”. As an adjective, it describes or identifies a quality or characteristic of the noun that it modifies.

Mark 6:20: For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and holy man [hagios = a SAINT; John was not only a just man, but a saint], and observed him; and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly."


So, Herod knew that John was a just man and a saint. Herod knew that he was a just man and a holy man by the way John conducted his life; by the way he lived. John was not given this title simply because he was a child of God.

It was given because Herod observed him. Herod observed him and knew that he was living a different kind of life than the normal life of the normal person would live according to lust and the power of sin that dominates the life of a normal human being.

John separated himself and was different and lived a lifestyle that was different. John had a holy lifestyle. You might be sitting there today and thinking, “I fall short of a holy lifestyle.”

A holy lifestyle means that I am separated unto purity. It does not mean that we live a lifestyle that is sinless. John was not deity; he was not God. He was a man, just like you and me. He was not practicing a lifestyle of lawlessness. He was very careful how he lived. He separated himself unto purity. He separated himself from that which was impure unto that which was clean.

So, when we talk about walking after a holy lifestyle, we’re talking about walking after the commandments.


2 John 6: And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.



This verse says that we can walk after the commandments. It tells us that we should be walking after them, but we may not be.

When we fall short, we have the precious, powerful blood of Jesus Christ, which will provide for us a washing and a cleansing. As Christians, when we find ourselves giving in to temptation, we have a high priest who is able to wash us and cleanse us in our walk, and this is part of our walk.

Ephesians 1:7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;



"In whom we have redemption”. What does that mean? It goes on to say, “forgiveness of sins according to the riches of his grace”. So, it’s the riches of his grace that allows Christians to have a continual redemption. What does redemption mean? Any time that I sin as a Christian, I sell myself over to another master. And I need to be bought back or purchased back to serving God. I cannot serve two masters. [Matthew 6.24: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve (be slaves) God and mammon. (Mammon is a Chaldee, Syriac and Punic money-god.] You can try to serve both, but failure awaits you. So, he provided a way that we can be redeemed from a lifestyle of sin, and that is through the precious blood of Jesus Christ. [2 Corinthians 5:15: Christ died for all; Mark 14:24: Blood is shed for many.]

1 John 1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



He restores us to fellowship. We’re not talking about people who are sinlessly perfect. We’re talking about people desiring the commandments of God; desiring to please God.

[FONT=&quot]Mark 1.24: (this is actually a demon speaking out of a man) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I (we) know thee who thou art, the Holy [hagios - saintly]One of God.
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[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]The holy one of God; the saintly one of God. Jesus Christ was a saint. [/FONT]

So, John and Jesus lived their lives as saints. Now, there’s a teaching today in Christianity that just because you’re a Christian or you’re saved or you’re in Christ, you’re given a title as a saint. No matter how wicked you might be, no matter how backslidden you are, no matter how you live, no matter how unrepentant you are; you’re considered a saint because you’re saved. This just simply is not true. There’s no such thing as positional saint. This is taught mainly because of Calvinism, which is trying to prove the eternal security of the believer. Now, the Bible teaches the eternal security of the saved individual: you cannot go to the lake of fire forever because you were purchased by Jesus Christ at the cross; He died for your sins on the cross.

Once you believe, you are saved. [Acts 16:31] If your position is just, you have no need to lie to prove your point; the truth speaks for itself. Calvinism tries to defend eternal security to the point that they take away the practical value and the plain reading of the scriptures, and they eliminate all the warning passages to Christians, because they believe that it endangers the security of the believer.

This position taken by Calvinism is not so. (That doesn’t mean Arminianism is correct either, just that this position is incorrect.) Peter was not a Calvinist. Peter was not one that believed in some sort of positional sainthood.


Read 1 Peter 1:14-16. "As obedient children..." (not some mystical position), "not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance..."


What’s Peter talking about? Life before you started living your life the way you should, not before you were saved; as a baby, you only need to know that Jesus died for your sins, and He’s the only one who did so; if you can believe that truth; you’re saved, you’re a part of God’s family.


When you start reading the Bible, 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us, "All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". The Bible instructs us in right living. How God wants us to live; after you’re in the family; you’ll read and you’ll find some things of which you’re ignorant; some things that you need to know as a Christian. "don’t conform yourselves to the former lusts”. Now that you’re reading Scripture, now that you’re learning the Bible and the holy knowledge of God, you need to make some changes!


Verse 15: "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy for I am holy."

God is holy! You see in the Bible, you see God in heaven and what are they saying? You don’t see them saying, mercy, mercy, mercy, love, love, love, grace, grace, grace. They’re saying, holy, holy, holy! God is holy! And all the angels; all the celestial beings are bowing down and saying this one thing about God; he’s a holy god; He’s a HOLY GOD!

15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy [be ye a saint] in all manner of (position… no!) conversation [lifestyle, conduct, behavior, or practical walk]; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy [be ye a saint]; for I am holy.

So, Peter is saying to Christians here, you can be holy. You have no excuse. God has empowered you with the power of grace. 2 Corinthians 12:9 tells us, "My grace is sufficient for thee", and if you take advantage of that grace, you are allowed to obey his commandments and to live holy and then when you do succumb to temptation (while we are in the process of becoming more and more sanctified and being more and more a saint), in that process when you get your feet dirty and you do sin, when you look where you’re not supposed to look, when you touch what you’re not supposed to touch, when you say what you shouldn’t say, you’re allowed to go to Jesus Christ and receive that washing as a Christian and the restoration back to fellowship.

There are two “Be ye holy’s” here in verses 15 and 16. They’re in the imperative. He’s commanding us to be ye holy. This is not a perfect holiness. This is a relevant, practical holiness. So, he’s saying here, that the measure that I obey the commandments of Jesus Christ will be the measure that Jesus Christ sets me apart as holy.

And in the measure that I confess my sins will be the measure that I am called a saint. So, we’re not talking here about holy perfection (being without sin). And some do teach that today that we don’t sin, but that’s silly and unscriptural. Does that correspond to the real world? No. Christians do have problems with lust and other vices that would trap us just like the unsaved are trapped. We have to be careful, that’s why we’re warned. There really is a devil, and there really is the flesh, and there really is a world that wants to see our failure as Christians.

 

Romans 5:9: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

What I love about the blood is it justifies us. It justifies us “much more”; beyond salvation, much more now does the blood allow you to stand in the presence of God, justified, now on the earth and also in the future at the Judgment Seat when we have to give an account. The blood allows us to stand blameless, as Job did. Job was blameless. Job sinned; he had times where he failed. But, he was called perfect, because he knew what to do with his sin when he did sin: sacrifice. Now we have a sacrifice for all time, and that was through Jesus Christ shedding his blood and taking it to the mercy seat in heaven, and providing for us an offering where we can receive the forgiveness of our sins.

 

We will be blameless when we stand before the Judge if we have placed our faith in Christ Jesus. He is the atonement for our sins. If the Child of God is not blameless, then the atonement was not satisfactory.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8 7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

How does blameless not fit in?

 

Notice the difference between "your" statement and Scripture. One is a statement of absoluteness and one is a statement of possibility.

Once again I'll have to go with Scripture over HBSMN.

 

Christ is able to confirm you... that you may be blameless ...
We will be blameless if we are in Christ.


I will believe Scripture over the twisting that Jump is trying to do.

 

I can't believe that I actually read this sentence by someone who was not funning someone else.

According to your doctrine, are you born into the family or are you adopted into the family?

If you're born into the family, what's the purpose of adoption?

If you claim you're adopted into the family, but not born into the family, we got a whole 'nother discussion.

 

Scripture says it's a possibility while you say its a certainty and I'm the one doing the twisting :laugh:. I see you are pulling out your comedy routine.

It continues to amaze me how a person that sticks with what the Scripture actually says is the person twisting the Scripture. Oh well . . .

 

The reason J Jump never posts his resources is because he doesn't have any. It's that simple.

 

:laugh: oooohhhh you got me good with that zinger Linda. You don't call Scripture a resource huh. Well there you go . . .

I don't put up resources because it doesn't matter what any man, woman or child says about Scripture. It only matters what Scripture says about Scripture. It's odd that you would have an issue with that. Well maybe not that odd . . .

 

I find the word "saints" used 60 times in the NT. The word "saint" itself is only found once in the NT-(Philippians 4:21)

Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you. (Philippians 4:21)

John also used the word "saints" thirteen times in the book of Revelation.

The word "saint" means one who is set apart for God. The words "saint", "holy" and "sanctify" come from the same Greek words---hagios: holy, saint; hagiazo: sanctify.

To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (Colossians 1:2)

This is one group of people. A "saint" is in Christ or he would not be called a "saint". Brethren is the plural of "brother". The "brethren" were also "in Christ. The "saints" and the "faithful brethren" were the same group. Paul was addressing one group of saved people at Colosse, not two.

 

Well once again you have managed to prove the point we were trying to get across. Of course they are the same group of people. Saints are those that are faithful.

Those that are unfaithful are not saints.

If you believe that all eternally saved individuals are faithful, obedient, overcomers...well I've got some ocean front property in Oklahoma that's lookin' mighty fine right about now.

 

Commentaries and dictionaries/encyclopedias are good resources for Bible study. You are correct, they are not Scripture and are written by man, so they are not the final authority. However the doctrines you are promoting on this forum board are NOT Scriptural. It has been said: "Text taken out of context is pretext". The definition of "pretext" is:

Webster's 1828 Dictionary
pretext
PRETEXT', n. L. proetextus. Pretense; false appearance; ostensible reason or motive assigned or assumed as a color or cover for the real reason or motive. He gave plausible reasons for this conduct, but these were only a pretext to conceal his real motives.

This is what you are doing---taking Scripture out of context and making it mean something other than what it actually means. That is the issue, not that you use Scripture, but that you use Scripture out of context---which is pretext.

 

Well you certainly quote them as though they are the final authority on the matter.

Linda this doesn't prove a thing. The same exact thing could be said of you. You have never shown any Scripture that I have taken out of context. If you have then by all means send me a PM and we can discuss matters so as not to derail this thread anymore.

 

I use commentaries, dictionaries, and encyclopedias as HELPS--and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

Here is one post where I found that you took Scripture out of context:

However, you didn't quote the verse--you just said "And those that cried Lord, Lord".

The individuals who cry LORD, LORD are NOT saved individuals---they were merely "professors"--The Lord replied "I NEVER KNEW you" Why did Jesus never know these individuals? Reason: they were lost and simply were professors of Christ. Our churches are full of "professors".

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (1 John 2:18-19)

There are "wolves in sheep's clothing" in our churches. Jesus said to beware of them:

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (Matthew 7:15)

Those are the people who will cry LORD, LORD and Jesus will say to them "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:23)

Paul warned the elders in Ephesus about those "wolves":

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. (Acts 20:29-30)

J Jump, this is happening right now. Like I said before, our churches are filled with "professors" of Christ but they are totally lost. Just because someone "professes" Christ doesn't mean they are saved. That doctrine of you just have to "profess Christ" and "say a prayer" is giving people a false assurance that they are saved, when they are not.

BTW, I'm not going to PM you---the thread has already been derailed--just at the time you began to post in here.

 

Again I ask you to refer to the previous blog and give a biblical response instead of an opinion. You have yet to provide Scripture to bac your claim.

From what I am reading from you, you are teaching that the Judgement Seat is just a legality. Just something to do before the Marriage Supper. Your claim has us waisting time at the Judgement Seat because all there have nothing to be accountable for.

At the Judgement Seat of Christ, it is not to determine who is saved and who is not. Only Believers will be there at the Judgement Seat of Christ.


I will now ask you a direct question looking for a direct answer:

If there is nothing of our works judge at the Judgement Seat of Christ, should we then tear II Corinthians 5:9-10 out of the Bible or should we believe every Word that has been given to us by God. Even the warnings?

Direct question, direct answer.

Thank you.

 

So you believe that Paul just stuttered or something by calling the same people two different things?
They were one church but in that church are different levels of faithfulness.

Your summary would be like saying : "I love canines, dogs, puppys, hounds, and man's best friend."

or

"Welcome to all Human beings, homosapians, and mankind."


Paul made no mistae and they understood why he put the division.
It would have been different if he would have said : "to all the saints, who are the faithful brethren."

We know he did not say this.

 

Once again you have proven nothing. There is nothing in this text that says these people were not saved. Quite the contrary is actually true.

The fact that they cried Lord, Lord tells us they were saved. The context of the passage is a judgment of works. Therefore we know these people were saved, because they were actually capable of doing the right works, they just didn't. They said that they cast out demons. Unsaved individuals can not cast out demons.

Again "you" say they were unsaved, but the text says nothing of the sort. So who's really taking this text out of context?

If a person believes in the Subtitutionary death and shed blood and profess that they are saved nor matter what you or anyone else says about the matter, because that is what Scripture says about the matter.

Again this text says nothing of professors and not possessors, unless you think eternal salvation is based on staying with the group.

Sure are and there are even a good number here on the BB!

They certainly could be within that group. The only argument I would make agains that is that the wolves now they are wolves and they are just trying to make gain off the sheep, whereas the Lord, Lord criers actually expected Jesus to accept them in a positive manner according to the structure of the Greek text and the negative response they received was quite a shock to them. I'm not sure wolves could say the same thing, but it's certainly possible I guess.

Sure is. You will get no argument there.

That may be true, but again just because that is true doesn't mean Scripture speaks of it. And they are not totally lost, but totally unsaved. Lost and unsaved are not the same thing, although Christendom at large would have us believe such.

Linda once again if someone believes and professes that Jesus Christ shed His blood and died on the cross on their behalf a sinner they are saved whether you like it or not. And no they don't have to say a prayer, they simply have to believe (Acts 16:30-31 and Ephesians 2:8-9).

I didn't figure you would. Everyone is so quick to tell me how wrong I am, but to date I have had ZERO people take me up on the offer to visit one on one. Hmmm . . .

Sure hope you don't kiss your mom with such a nasty mouth.

"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

I'm curious...can you show me where there is a shred of love evidenced in your last statement? Sure doesn't see to be any to me.

 

You have yet to prove that any of this is false doctrine. We shouldn't put our trust in man but in the Word. I would like to ask all to look back to the past though. What did our forefathers teach? What did the first church and then the early church write about this subject? What did those in the 1700's and 1800's say?
Not that they are anyone extra special but I believe it can be proven that much of this "Get saved and all is okay, there is no judgement for you, and Lordship salvation" is fairly new as a whole. I'm sure there were a few that taught this in the past but by far I believe many of our founding fathers who suffered immensly for the sake of the gospel taught firm accountability before christ at the Judgement seat.

Again, these are men but what did they glean from God's Word. I do not believe anything just because a man says it is true but I find it interesting that this new (over the past 100 years or so) wave of "One gospel" for "one mankind" has perverted our minds and kept so many from seeing God's true purpose for mankind.
The challenge is there.

 

I gave Scripture and you deny it. Your loss.