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Featured ¶John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Jul 5, 2020.

  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    2 thes And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
     
  2. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Previenient Grace as taught is in agreement with the T in Tulip as a ' partial regeneration ' or a ' quickening ' . A means of bringing a person out of ' deadness ' so that they may be ' able ' to respond or refuse the grace . This is not biblical.
     
  3. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    God graciously sent His Son , The Holy Spirit is sent to convict the World of sin , righteousness and Judgement , We have the Bible ,creation , conscience , Christians, The Gospel..ect .
     
  4. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Again... these two statements are at odds. The second statement seems to say that in order to believe the Holy Spirit must be given. But, the first statement says that in order to receive the Holy Spirit, one must believe. Again, these two statements cannot be correct; one must be false.

    The Archangel
     
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  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking about God giving all that leaves people without excuse to believe. There is no need for extra pre grace . My example from acts 2 is simply to say after the Day of pentacost the Holy Spirit is Given . The Holy Spirit convicts the World of Sin ect . My point is that previenient and irresistible Grace as explained by the systems are unbiblical .
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is Pelagianism, not Christianity.
     
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  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Ahh the boogeyman Pelagianism which started this whole mess of Augustines philosophy aka calvernism in the first place . Every Calvernists go to scare tactic ,followed closely by ' your a universalist ' . Calvernists are so paralysed of theses dangers they forget to check there own system for errors . No I do not believe we have in ourselves in any sense to make it to heaven .Nor do I believe that God does a percentage and we do our percentage for salvation . God has done all for us to be saved and does all to save . Including the offer of salvation where God is pleased to save all those who believe.
     
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It's true. You are teaching heresy according to the Council of Ephesus of 431....and Luther, Calvin, and the host of reformers.
     
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That viewpoint has indeed been seen as heresy!
     
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    There are many ranging from free will to premillennialism/Dispensationalism.
     
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    lol could you explain why I'm teaching heresy from what I've said . And I'm not concerned about Luther who never really let go of Catholicism and like Calvin followed the heretical Augustine.
     
  12. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Which viewpoint. According to Calvinists everyone else is a semipalagien , universalist will worshipper.
     
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Pelagius taught this. That salvation happens apart from God's supernatural involvement. That sin does not incapacitate the will and people are not inherently sinful. That anyone can will their own salvation apart from God.

    They condemned this as heresy in 431 and agreed with Augustine that salvation is a supernatural occurrence wholly dependent on God's mercy and grace.

    You say it's for the self-righteous.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Premil and Dispy have never been classified as being that!
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Pre-mill = heresy in a couple of the Ecumenical Creeds.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The one that holds that they need no additional Gracing from God at all is the heretic!
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NOT in the Bible!
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Pre mill is a pharisee belief. Jesus corrected this teaching Amillennialism.
     
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Although I am very familiar with Both heresies that Plage and Augus taught I however believe the bible that says that we are sinful , we cannot birth ourselves , we cannot do good to gain eternal life ( there's none that does good in this sense , no not one ) we are lost , separated due to the fall . I don't believe in the gnostic / stoic view on total inability. We did not lose the ability to positively respond to God . We can believe the Gospel . Otherwise its pretty foolish that God would say over and over to believe and obey the Gospel if we cannot .
     
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This means you are an enemy of the Church. The Ecumenical Creeds unify Christendom. And you proclaim you are not with us.
     
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