1 John 5:17 ESV
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
Last night at church we had a discussion on this passage. There are various interpretations people have of it.
In your view, what is the sin not unto death.
Keep in mind this passage:
Romans 6:23 ESV
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 John 5:17
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Osage Bluestem, Mar 3, 2011.
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My best guess is that the "sin unto death" applies to believers. It has nothing to do with spiritual death.
It refers to a believer in such persistent sin that he simply kills him.
What that sin is, or how much or how long, I don't know. -
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I've witnessed this firsthand in my family. My sister (a believer) was taken in 2003 at the age of 25 after she met a guy and began to get into some evil things. She never had a boyfriend before she met this guy, and when someone showed some interest in her, she fell head over heels for him. Unfortunately, he was involved in vampirism and occultic practices. My sister slowly began to follow "her man", and I believe God basically said "enough is enough" and she died a horrible death due to CO poisoning along with him. -
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John Calvin:
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At our table at church we felt that the sin not unto death was a sin committed by a saved person. An unsanctified saved person will still sin but not unto death as he is atoned for.
There are sins that an unsanctified saved person will still commit. There are also sins that no saved person would commit, murder, rape, etc.
So we thought a sin unto death was a sin commited by a person that showed he wasn't really saved, but was adamant that he was. A sin not unto death was a sin committed by a saved person.
The ESV study bible and Matthew Henry agree closest to this view.
Other views expressed were Macarthurs view that says that a sin unot death is a sin unot physical death and a sin not unto death is a sin by a saved person.
There was also the view that the book of 1 John is dealing with false teachers in many ways and that a sin unto death was the hardened teaching that Christ was somehting other than Christ. In this case it is obvious that the person isn't saved even though they calim to be and that is a sin unto death because they are so hardened that they will not repent. I think this view falls into the 1st view. -
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We just concluded that there are some sins that saved people won't do and some that they will.
Saved people cannot ever sin unto death and lost people cannot but sin unot death...etc was the train of thought.
The ESV study bible and Matthew Henry seem to agree, as well as one of our associate pastors who narrowed it down to false teachers teaching lieas about the person of Jesus such as "he isn't God" etc... -
We have debated before on this board about whether or not Christians can commit certain sins. I started a thread on it a few years ago. I am of the mind that there are certain sins a Christian will not commit, rape being one of them and also child molestation and serial killings.
But most people on the board think I'm wrong and will say that Christians can commit any sin that an unbeliever may commit. I just don't know. -
I checked that one, the ESV, The Reformation SB, and Matthew Henry on this topic.
I believe that a saved person will not do certain sins and if he does it is clear evidence he is not saved. I think the spirit will keep him from it. There are just certain sins that are absolutley loveless that one with the Spirit of Love wouldn't do. -
You will get some opposition to this thought from the BB though. :) -
When you look at the church at Corinth is is apparent there were heinous crimes committed. -
Also if a man claims to be a christian and yet is murdering, raping, and hating people he is not a christian. We are to discern the spirits and that one is not good. Christians don't do that. Read 1 John.
Also this is an interesting document regarding this subject.
http://www.answers.org/bible/sininout.html
The Spirit convicts man of sin. And it is clear that if a man hates his brother he is not of God whether he claims to be or not, instead he is a liar and is not saved.
1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
1 John 3:15 ESV
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 2:11 ESV
But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. -
"Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." - Apostle Paul
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13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 3:15 ESV
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
There is no one who hates his brother who really has faith in Christ. -
I'm wondering if such "sin unto death" has more to do with the persistence than the nature of the sin. And, whether it may have to do with the public nature of the sin, which would bring reproach on the name of the Lord Jesus. I think bringing reproach would be similar to pointing people away from Christ.
I'm asking questions here rather than making flat statements.
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