Was doing my study tonight and ran across a Bible difficulty and a variation in the manuscripts which does happen a bit between the KJV and the modern versions.
The KJV/NKJV says here not given to wine, however the ESV says “not a drunkard” and the NIV says “not given to drunkedness.” This appears to be a bible difficulty in the manuscripts that the versions use, can anyone with more experience in textual criticism and the languages assist? Its not wonder that lots of KJV IFB churches hold to their view on alcohol with crucial passages like this one. So is the KJV correct or are the modern versions? Remember also the NKJV translates like the KJV here.
1 Tim 3:1-3
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by evangelist6589, Oct 22, 2014.
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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clark thompson MemberSite Supporter
It is saying wine should be a factor in you life if you drink you should not get drunk or drink to where make bad descions.
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Or is it Baptist churches hold to NO wine, ect; because they are afraid of Biblical discipline in that area?
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I don't think it is a textual variant... just a translational choice.
But I could be wrong... my wife is in labor and having a baby as I type this!!!! (not allowed in the room) -
Boy or girl? -
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I heard someone use part of this from Proverbs to prove God hates alcohol and it is a sin to consume it. They don't even bother with context..
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Best wishes on your new arrival!
Rob -
I have a son!!!
Sorry to derail the thread. But I had to get my mind off of not being w/ my wife during the process. -
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You heard it here first, BBers! -
Our word (paroinos) appears twice in scripture, 1 Tim 3:3 and Titus 1:7, and is translated as addicted to wine, drunkard, and given to wine. If you look at the words which later became paroinos, you find "beside" and "wine." Since "a little wine" is advocated by Paul (1 Timothy 5:23), many believe the idea is spending too much time with wine, i.e. drinking it to excess. A secondary idea suggests "a mean drunk, i.e. brawler."
Since a significant fraction of individuals "cannot hold their liqueur" Christians have historically felt drinking sets an example which will lead some of our brothers and sisters astray, thus "Teetotaler" Christians base their abstention view in part on this verse. -
A rudimentary knowledge of Greek would be helpful.
Note: Fill in the page before hitting "view text"
Select:
- View the variant readings: Y
- The order of the manuscripts in each variant reading: by text type
- Show the text of Westcott and Hort: Y
- Show the Byzantine text: Y
You can find an on-line interlinear English-Greek testament to translate it if necessary.
You'll note that there are no variants for the phrase mentioned.
Rob - View the variant readings: Y
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There is a variant in this verse but it does not involve the issue that was raised in the OP.
1 Timothy 3:3
not given to drunkenness, (NIV)
μὴ πάροινον (CT)
not violent (NIV)
μὴ πλήκτην (CT)
but gentle, (NIV)
ἀλλὰ ἐπιεικῆ (CT)
not quarrelsome, (NIV)
ἄμαχον (CT)
not a lover of money. (NIV)
ἀφιλάργυρον (CT)
1 Timothy 3:3
Not given to wine, (KJV)
μὴ πάροινον (TR)
no striker, (KJV)
μὴ πλήκτην (TR)
not greedy of filthy lucre; (KJV)
μὴ αἰσχροκερδῆ, (TR)
but patient, (KJV)
ἀλλ᾽ ἐπιεικῆ (TR)
not a brawler, (KJV)
ἄμαχον (TR)
not covetous; (KJV)
ἀφιλάργυρον (TR)
Note the similarities in Titus 1:7 (no significant variants between the Greek texts)--
For a bishop must be blameless, (KJV)
Since an overseer [...] he must be blameless— (NIV)
δεῖ γὰρ τὸν ἐπίσκοπον ἀνέγκλητον εἶναι (TR/CT)
as the steward of God; (KJV)
[manages God’s household,] (NIV)
ὡς θεοῦ οἰκονόμον (TR/CT)
not selfwilled, (KJV)
not overbearing, (NIV)
μὴ αὐθάδη (TR/CT)
not soon angry, (KJV)
not quick-tempered, (NIV)
μὴ ὀργίλον (TR/CT)
not given to wine, (KJV)
not given to drunkenness, (NIV)
μὴ πάροινον (TR/CT)
no striker, (KJV)
not violent, (NIV)
μὴ πλήκτην (TR/CT)
not given to filthy lucre; (KJV)
not pursuing dishonest gain. (NIV)
μὴ αἰσχροκερδῆ (TR/CT) -
I noticed the ASV omitted it .
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Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
the bible says look not upon the wine when it giveth its color or something like that.
the first mention of alcohol in the bible was not very good either.
There's plenty of verses that condemn alcohol for recreational use, and there is a the principle of abstaining from appearance of evil. -
This is probably going to be as effective as spitting into the wind but I'm bored so here we go...
Pro 23:31 KJV Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.
I heard this verse so often, as you just did, in order to condemn all drinking.
However the context demonstrates this is a warning for those who are drunks, and is a prohibition of drunkenness not drinking.
http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2010/05/05/the-real-meaning-of-1-thessalonians-5-22/
If you just want the cliff notes version:
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Who at the feast of the Lord will say,"oh Lord no wine for me as I am a good baptist"??==6 And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. isa. 25:6
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