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1535 Coverdale's Bible on Pure Stream of Bibles

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Logos1560, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    One of the leading arguments for a KJV-only view in several books by KJV-only authors is a two-streams-of-Bibles argument. One stream is identified as the pure stream of Bibles by KJV-only authors and the other stream is claimed to be a corrupt stream of Bibles.

    One of the Bibles placed on the KJV-only view's pure stream of Bibles is the 1535 Coverdale's Bible. The 1535 Coverdale's Bible is one of the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV is a revision.

    Peter Ruckman listed the 1535 Coverdale's Bible on his good tree of Bibles. D. A. Waite wrote: “The Coverdale Bible (1535) used the Received Text” (Defending the KJB, p. 48). In another book, D. A. Waite listed Coverdale's as being based on “the Traditional Text/Textus Receptus” (Foes, p. 38; see also Central Seminary Refuted, p. 110). Thomas Holland indicated that Coverdale's was “based on the Traditional Text” (Crowned with Glory, p. 77). Bob Steward maintained that Coverdale’s Bible “is the product of the Received Text” (God’s Invisible Hand, p. 11). Dick Cimino suggested that the 1535 Coverdale's came “from the same type Greek Text” as the KJV (The Book, p. 14). David Daniels identified Coverdale's Bible as an Antiochian Bible (Answers, p. 18). James C. Kahler included Coverdale's Bible in his circle of Bibles that “came directly from the Traditional Text line and were good Bibles” (Charted History, p. 25).

    Gail Riplinger suggested that Coverdale “compared pure Holy Bibles in various languages” (In Awe, p. 37). Gail Riplinger asserted that Coverdale “was intimately involved in the process of the Bible’s being ’given’ (2 Tim. 3:16) and ’purified’ (Ps. 12:6, 7) in English” (Hazardous Materials, p. 1165). Riplinger maintained that “God entrusted Wycliffe and Coverdale with the transmission of the text” (p. 1167).

    Here are some facts from the 1535 Coverdale's Bible on the KJV-only pure stream of Bibles which KJV-only authors seem to keep hidden or which they avoid or dodge. Some of the spelling in the 1535 Coverdale's Bible is updated to be more like that in present KJV editions.

    Leviticus 26:11 in the 1535 Coverdale's Bible
    And your cities will I make waste, and bring your churches to naught, and will not smell your sweet odours.

    Job 7:12
    Am I a see or a whalefish, that thou keepest me so in prison?

    Isaiah 12:2a
    Behold, God is my health

    Ezekiel 45:21
    Upon the xiiii day of the first month ye shall keep Easter. Seven days hall the feast continue, wherein there shall no sower nor leavened bread be eat

    Daniel 3:25c
    and the fourth is like an angel to look upon

    Hosea 8:14a
    they have forgotten him that made them, they build churches, and Juda maketh many strong cities

    Amos 7:9a
    but the high hillchapels of Isaac must be laid waste, and the churches of Israel made desolate


    Matthew 1:23a
    Behold, a maid shall be with child

    Matthew 3:8
    Beware, bring forth due fruits of penance

    Matthew 8:6a
    saying, Sir, my servant lyeth sick at home of the palsy

    Matthew 12:41b
    for they did penance according to the preaching of Jonas

    Mark 15:6
    At that feast of Easter he was wont to deliver unto them a prisoner, whom so ever they would desire

    Luke 2:33
    And his father and mother marveled at the things that were spoke of him

    Luke 2:41
    And his elders went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of Easter

    Luke 10:13c
    they had done penance long ago, sitting in sack cloth and in ashes

    Luke 11:32b
    for they did penance after the preaching of Jonas

    Luke 15:7a
    I say unto you: Even so shall there be joy in heaven over one sinner that doth penance

    Luke 22:1
    The feast of sweet bread (which is called Easter) drew nigh

    John 3:16a
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son

    John 14:2
    In my fathers house are many dwellings

    Acts 3:19a
    Do penance now therefore and turn you

    Acts 26:20b
    that they should do penance, and turn unto God, and to do the right works of penance

    Romans 8:5b
    but they that are ghostly, are ghostly minded

    1 Corinthians 16:8
    But I will tarry at Ephesus until Whitsuntide

    Revelation 1:10a
    I was in the spirit on a Sunday

    Many more facts from the 1535 Coverdale's Bible could likely be cited.

    Do KJV-only advocates apply the same measures or standards justly to the 1535 Coverdale's Bible that they would attempt to apply inconsistently to the NKJV?
     
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  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I think this is Leviticus 26:31.
    Probably not consistently, if you are talking about differences due to translation.
     
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  3. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it is. Thanks for the reference correction. I typed it incorrectly.
     
  4. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Interesting and informative.

    Thank you!
     
  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    The 1535 Coverdale's Bible on the KJV-only view's pure stream of Bibles has several significant textual differences when compared to the KJV.

    At Psalm 14, the 1535 Coverdale's Bible has three whole verses that are not found there in the KJV.
    The reprint edition of the 1535 Coverdale's Bible that I checked does not have Psalm 136:24 that is in the KJV.

    The 1535 Coverdale's Bible does not have Mark 11:26, Luke 17:36, Revelation 21:26, and the second half of 1 John 2:23 when compared to the KJV.

    At the end of Mark 15:3, the 1535 Coverdale's Bible does not have the words "but he answered nothing."

    At the end of John 8:59 after the words "and went out of the temple," the 1535 Coverdale's Bible does not have the following words: "going through the midst of them, and so passed by."

    At the beginning of John 14:1, 1535 Coverdale's Bible has the following words not found in the KJV: "And he said unto his disciples."

    Here is John 8:9 in the 1535 Coverdale's Bible
    "But when they heard that, they went out, one after another, the eldest first, and left Jesus alone, and the woman standing before him."

    Here is Acts 13:30 in the 1535 Coverdale's Bible
    "But on the third day God raised him up from the dead."

    Would it be fair to conclude that the 1535 Coverdale's Bible on the KJV-only "pure stream of Bibles" has greater textual differences from the KJV than the NKJV, which is inconsistently and unjustly excluded from this pure stream, has?
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    My understanding is that Coverdale's Bible is Tyndale's N.T., Pentateuch and Jonah (which is I think as far as Tyndale got with the O.T.), and rest of the O.T. is the Vulgate translated into English, supplemented by a new Roman Catholic Latin translation and a few bits of Luther's German version, because Coverdale didn't know Hebrew.

    I rather suspect that the textual differences are printing errors as the Bible was produced in great haste.
     
  7. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Huh? Wasn't Coverdale's not divided into verses? How then have you come up with the number three extra "whole verses"?
     
  8. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Some of the same textual differences were in Tyndale's because of actual textual differences in the early Textus Receptus editions. Some early TR editions did not have those three verses [Mark 11:26, Luke 17:36, and Revelation 21:21.

    Other textual differences such as at Psalm 14 and at Acts 13:30 may be because of Coverdale's use of the textually-different Latin Vulgate.
     
  9. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Other Bibles, such as the Douay-Rheims Bible, which have verses, divide all the additional material in the 1535 Coverdale's into three whole verses. If I recall correctly, it would be Psalm 13 in the Douay instead of Psalm 14 as in the Coverdale's Bible.

    One reprint edition of the 1535 Coverdale's Bible that I have has the text divided into verses, which makes it easier to compare it to the KJV.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which TR edition would KJVO see as being the right one than to use, and which Kjv edition?
     
  11. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Wow.

    I got the three verse thing by actually seeing the 1535 Coverdale's asterisking of, and disclaimer about the "three verses":

    "These thre verses are not in the Hebrue"

    [​IMG]

    A presentation attempting to contrast Coverdale and the KJB, here, or in some booklet, that fails to mention Coverdale's frank disclaimer about the three verses, is incomplete and quite misleading.
     
    #11 Jerome, Mar 3, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  12. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    In the portions of the Old Testament which William Tyndale did not translate from the Hebrew, I acknowledge the truth that Miles Coverdale translated from the Latin Vulgate and Luther's German Bible.

    I pointed out that the three additional verses at Psalm 14 in the 1535 Coverdale's Bible came from use of the Latin Vulgate.

     
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  13. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    The title of the 1535 Coverdale's Bible was the following:

    The Bible/ that is, the holy Scripture of the Old and New Testament, faithfully and truly translated out of Douche [German] and Latin into English
     
  14. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Would KJV defenders be willing to see the truth that the KJV-only view's pure stream of Bibles that includes the 1535 Coverdale's Bible would be incomplete and misleading if it does not also include the NKJV?

    Would the 1982 NKJV be more in agreement with the KJV than the 1535 Coverdale's Bible would be?
     
  15. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Is the same standard or measure applied to the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV is a revision and to the KJV?

    Is the 1535 Coverdale's Bible on the pure stream of Bibles according to KJV defenders true to a majority text?
     
  16. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    A few more example renderings in the 1535 Coverdale's Bible on the KJV-only view's pure stream of Bibles

    Psalm 2:1
    Why do the heathen grudge (1535 Coverdale's)
    Why do the heathen rage (1611 KJV)

    Psalm 2:11
    rejoice before him with reverence (1535 Coverdale's)
    rejoice with trembling (1611 KJV)

    Psalm 2:12
    lest the LORD be angry (1535 Coverdale's)
    lest he be angry (1611 KJV)

    Psalm 3:3
    my defender, my worship (1535 Coverdale's)
    a shield for me, my glory (1611 KJV)

    Psalm 6:5
    in the hell (1535 Coverdale's)
    in the grave (1611 KJV)

    Psalm 8:1
    O Lord our governour (1535 Coverdale's)
    O LORD our Lord (1611 KJV)

    Psalm 9:14
    rejoice in thy saving health (1535 Coverdale's)
    rejoice in thy salvation (1611 KJV)

    Psalm 9:20
    O LORD, set a schoolmaster over them (1535 Coverdale's)
    Put them in fear, O LORD (1611 KJV)
     
  17. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    A few comparisons of the 1535 Coverdale's Bible and the 1611 KJV:

    Deuteronomy 1:1
    on the other side Jordan (1535 Coverdale's)
    on this side Jordan (1611 KJV)

    Deut. 1:5
    On the other side Jordan (1535 Coverdale's)
    On this side Jordan (1611 KJV)

    Deut. 1:21
    Go up & conquer it (1535 Coverdale's)
    go up and possess it (1611 KJV)

    Deut. 1:46
    So ye abode in Cades a long season (1535 Coverdale's)
    So ye abode in Kadesh many days, according unto the days that ye abode there (1611 KJV)

    Deut. 3:18
    Go your way forth therefore harnessed (1535 Coverdale's)
    ye shall pass over armed (1611 KJV)

    Deut. 3:24
    O LORD LORD (1535 Coverdale's)
    O Lord GOD (1611 KJV)

    Deut. 3:29
    over against the house of Peor (1535 Coverdale's)
    over against Beth-peor (1611 KJV)
     
  18. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 6:7
    And when ye pray, babble not much (1535 Coverdale's)
    And when ye pray, use not vain repetitions (1611 KJV)

    Matthew 16:18
    upon this rock will I build my congregation (1535 Coverdale's)
    upon this rock I will build my church (1611 KJV)

    Matthew 18:17
    tell it unto the congregation (1535 Coverdale's)
    tell it unto the church (1611 KJV)

    Matthew 19:9
    breaketh wedlock (1535 Coverdale's)
    committeth adultery (1611 KJV)

    Matthew 27:5
    and gat him away (1535 Coverdale's)
    and departed (1611 KJV)

    Mark 1:41
    And it pitied Jesus (1535 Coverdale's)
    And Jesus, moved with compassion (1611 KJV)

    Acts 2:47
    added to the congregation (1535 Coverdale's)
    added to the church (1611 KJV)

    Acts 3:2
    And there was a certain man halt (1535 Coverdale's)
    And a certain man lame (1611 KJV)

    Acts 5:11
    over the whole congregation (1535 Coverdale's)
    upon all the church (1611 KJV)

    Acts 6:1
    there arose a grudge among the Greeks (1535 Coverdale's)
    there arose a murmuring of the Grecians (1611 KJV)

    Acts 7:20
    was a proper child before God (1535 Coverdale's)
    was exceeding fair (1611 KJV)
     
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