What part of John 3:16 don't you understand....
John 3:16
(16) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[6] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
SHALL NOT PERISH!!!!!
That is a promise, along with so many others throught the NT, that we are eternally secure......
eternally means never ending!
#2 Two Salvations? #3 Kingdom Exclusion
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Ed Edwards, Sep 27, 2006.
Page 3 of 16
-
Sure sounds like love to me. Better to be disciplined for a 1,000 years than to be kicked out of the family forever, and ever and ever and ever and ever. That is mercy and love, whether you want to believe it is or not.
Tim are you kidding me. You are equating this passage with a judgment of the saved and the unsaved. Come on now. The Bible never speaks of the saved and the unsaved at the same judgment.
This is speaking of the bema seat judgment of Christ which is ONLY for believers. Believers works will be tried and yes believers can produce wood, hay and stubble.
You say it right, but you don't even believe what you right. The unfaithful (saved individuals who are disobedient) will have nothing but wood, hay and stubble and will suffer loss just as the text says. The faithful (saved individuals who are obedient, overcomers) will have gold, silver and precious stones that stand.
This is NOT a picture of the saved and unsaved together. -
See thats just it... I don't beleive every Christian will receive a crown... they may be there but be crownless....
And why are you using guilt and fear to motivate Christians to serve God...That is what this boils down to...
Scare them into serving him...
God wants people to serve him not out of fear, but Love.
Love based on who He is and what He has done.
But if you don't believe that God is able to place you in his kingdom, I understand why you don't serve him out of appreciation... you have nothing to appreciate.... except for what YOU do for Him.
That is works...
Plain and simple, the kingdom comes with salvation.
I'm sorry you have to live a life of fear.
God is not a terrorist.
I gotta go get some things done....I may be back later. -
So do you expect to never die? I mean if you die, that would make God a LIAR wouldn't it? You have a promise that says you will never perish, therefore you cannot die. Or do you suppose perish must have some type of qualification attached to it?
-
The same serpent that beguiled Eve, back in the garden has slithered into the forums of the BB to again try to deceive using God's Word and turn the truth into a lie, 'Yea, and hath God said...?
They are trying to cast doubt and fear into the minds and hearts of Christians. God is not the author of fear.
They are trying to divide the body of Christ, yet Paul wrote Christ is not divided.
They work all right, but the very work they are doing is contrary to what is written and required in the Holy Scripture. They are working to bring division. -
-
Even though they lose all their works, they are not burnt themselves..
They do not go to Hell, like you are trying to convince everyone they do.
That was what I was saying...
I know it is the Bema Seat... That is where we will get rewards..
or not, but will be saved as by fire..
(Ok, I'm outta here for now:tongue3: ) -
No one has been able to do it yet, so I look forward to your response.
Christ told Peter at the footwashing that IF he didn't let Jesus wash him then he would have no part WITH Him. Just as IF we don't let Jesus continually wash us we will have no part WITH Him.
Christ's blood ONLY covers our sins if we confess. If we are unrepentant then Christ's blood will not cover that.
And there is NOWHERE in Scripture that says discipline stops after death. If there is please show me.
How you and others like you can think that one can live their life any ole way they please in blantant disobedience and open rebellion and then everything be fine just because they kicked the bucket is really unbelievable.
Why is Christ going to wed Himself to a disobedient Christian? Why is Christ going to turn over rulership to a person that is disobedient.
That's just like saying you owned a business and you hired a thief and said I know you are a thief, but watch my store for me while I'm on vacation.
It's not going to happen as much as you would like to think it is. Talking about something that makes NO sense.
-
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;
In your portrayal of the kingdom there is NO motivation to serve, because I can have the whole world and still rule and reign in the kingdom. So why deny all the desires of this world if I can still have all of the best in the world to come?
Because NO one has ever said that it is something WE do for Him. It is quite the opposite. It is God's grace at work in us. God does for us what He requires of us and then gives us credit as if we did it ourselves. My works are actually His works, but He calls them my works.
Paul said "I" have finished the race, and "I" have fought the good fight. Do you think Paul was puffing himself up because he had done so many wonderful things?
-
-
-
Luke 8:24
24 And they came to him, and awoke him, saying, Master, master, we perish. Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm. -
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
-
Is your name "pot" or "kettle"? -
There is only one salvation and it comes from being in Christ, the works are His, a true believer can not be taken out of His hand. You can not show in scripture that there are two salvations, if by your understanding you think you can, please do so.
Again you say all those things that are really pie the sky type of statements and then provide not one single Scirptural proof. Not even a cherry picked verse to prove your point.
The scriptures are written to believers, and some can not understand that true believers are in Christ and Christ is not divided.
Salvation is eternal and that is EXACTLY what we have said. But time after time after time after time after time after time it has been shown in both the OT and the NT that works are not required for entrance into what you would like to interpret as a second salvation of the kingdom, faith is what makes one righteous. You just can not get around that without denying Scripture.
Until you can realize there is no distinction between eternal salvation and salvation of the soul there will be no understanding and any attempt to understand would be in vain, because you are going to constantly come up with false statements such as this:
You don’t understand that all have sinned, none are righteous, no not one, oops wait a minute there is One that is perfect, Christ, and if we are born again in His Spirit we are cleansed from our sins and without Him we can do NOTHING.
It just really cracks me up that we get accused of preaching a works based salvation and then you all come along and backload a second type kingdom salvation with works and continue to make accusations.
Your beliefs just don't pass the Scripture test as bad as you want to hold on to them. If your kingdom doctrine fails the test, the kingdom doctrine must go and the Word of God must stand. It's really that plain and simple.
No you don't understand. That's why you shouldn't have made the last two statements. Confession isn’t something we are perfect at; we do not have a license to go out and sin, but we do have forgiveness in Him by our love for what He has done for us and try to obey in that love, we are repentant in that love by belief in knowing what He has done for us and suffer with Him being convicted in the Holy Spirit which guides us into being a new creature, in Him.
It's amazing this has to be said so many times, but I can cherry pick verses out of Scripture and prove just about anything I want to if I'm willing to take them out of their original contexts.
If you’ve committed one sin you’ve committed them all, and one is all it takes to keep you from heaven.
Now I know you don't believe a Christian can be made righteous by faith alone, and you preach if they are disobedient they will face a second salvation disregarding the impossibility of being perfect meaning they are later forfeiting the promise in a second kingdom salvation, but there's just ZERO Scriptural evidence to back that belief up. If there is please show it, because no one to date has been able to.
So says JJump, but I'll take Scripture of so says Jump any day no offense.
-
"Perish" is used in both instances. Does it mean the same thing in both places? Exactly.... :rolleyes:
-
Again a statement that shows you don't understand what we are talking about. NOONE has said that a Christian is eternally unsecure.
But here's the thing Tim. What does the word aionios mean? Does it mean everlasting every time it is used? No it doesn't. It is a Greek adjective that is based on the word aion which means age or a period of time with a beginning and an ending.
Context tells us whether or not it is speaking of everlasting (eternal is a terrible translation of that word regardless of which side you fall on). So let's look at the context of this verse.
John tells us that whosoever believes (present, active, participle) this life. So if this is speaking of eternal salvation then one can not be eternally secure, because they would have to continue believing until they died. If they were ever unbelieving then they would not be able to claim this promise.
Those that don't believe will perish, so the question that has to be asked is how can a dead man die? One can not die unless they are alive. This is speaking of spiritually alive people. Becuase if spiritually alive people don't continue to believe then they will perish.
You can save your life (soul) now and lose it (perish) in the age to come or you can lose your life (soul) now (die/perish to self now) and find life in the age to come.
What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose/forfeit his soul?
I could go on, but there is probably no need.
-
-
God's not lying...you just don't know how to rightly divide the Word. Learn what perish means in proper context, and let Bible explain Bible. -
Acts 27:31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.
Or is that maybe a different salvation than the one salvation that there only is?
Page 3 of 16