3 days and 3 nights

[wopik]

IF Jesus meant 72 hours, then someone who died near sunset would have to rise near sunset -- 72 hours later. That's why I see more validity in a Wednesday crucifixion.

A prophecy in Daniel MAY SUGGEST that the Messiah was to die, or as it say, to be "cut off", in "the midst of the week" (Wednesday) - Daniel 9:26-27 kjv.

 

[Taufgesinnter]

If you read the rest of the passage, you'll see that was referring to halfway through the final week of years discussed there. Jesus died three and a half years into His public ministry--the middle of the 70th week of years. The Wednesday crucifixion-Saturday night resurrection scenario long held by me and Falwell, et al. depends on the gospel narratives, and doesn't need OT corroboration. For a thorough discussion of the three days and three nights, see the chapter on that subject in Ralph Woodrow's Babylon Mystery Religion. For the opposing point of view, see Ralph Woodrow's Three Days and Three Nights.

 

[Daniel David]

If I say I worked during the day and night on Tuesday, does that mean that I worked all 24 hours? What if I started right before sundown and quit two hours later?

The same kind of language was used in the 1st century.

Friday night
Saturday
Sunday morning

3 days and 3 nights

 

[wopik]

Jesus was more specific. According to John (11:9-10), Jesus says, "Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbles not, because he sees the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbles....."

Jesus differentiated a day between "day" and "night".

----------

Besides, Jesus wasn't there very early Sunday morning. The women found the tomb empty - no Jesus. There were no eye-witnesses to the resurrection.

If Jesus meant 72 hours, HE would have been resurrected the same time of day that HE died - late afternoon.

The Sunday Morning references are just references to when the women went to Jesus' tomb, not to the time of day of HIS resurrection.

[ November 15, 2003, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: wopik ]

 

[Dr. Bob]

Jews were required to bury the dead before sundown.

After a reasonable time, relatives would go into the burial chamber and put a glass over the mouth (to assure the person was truly dead) and verify that decomposition had begun.

The Hebrew idiom for this period of time was "three days and threed nights". It is NOT talking about 72 hours.

It's like me saying I'll be back in a "couple of days". Exactly how long is that? No specific amount of time.

The whole Wed/Thur/Fri debate is moot from that perspective.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
The Hebrew idiom for this period of time was "three days and threed nights". It is NOT talking about 72 hours.

How do you know this is an idiom?

It's like me saying I'll be back in a "couple of days". Exactly how long is that?

Two days. A "couple" is two.

I recently went on a cruise (it was awesome!). Now if a cruise had advertised "3 days and 3 nights", but the boat left Friday night and came back early Sunday morning, most people would not be too impressed.

 

[Watchman]

Originally posted by wopik:
IF Jesus meant 72 hours, then someone who died near sunset would have to rise near sunset -- 72 hours later. That's why I see more validity in a Wednesday crucifixion.
__________________________________________________

I agree. The dawning of the first day of the Jewish week is (what we call) sundown Saturday. They would go to the grave as soon as they could after the sabbath was over, again, Saturday night.
Note one of the Gospel accounts said, "While it was still dark".
God instituted sabbaths (Plural) there was not just the weekly sabbath, but others as well. They were in a hurry to bury Jesus, not before the weekly sabbath, but the yearly Passover sabbath.
The late Charles Halff, founder of the Christian Jew Foundation, (www.cjf.org) very well versed in Jewish law and traditions, put it that year as starting sundown Wednesday.
IMHO it was exactly 72 hours.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by BrianT:
How do you know this is an idiom?

Hebrew grammar allows the words to be used literally/exactly or as a phrase as an idiom of speech. You can find it in good Hebrew lexicons.

Hebrew is a picturesque language, NOT an exact language like Greek. I am thankful the theology of the Bible is detailed in the NT (greek) rather than the OT.

And I'd be mad at the cruise, too. But if it has said a "coupla days", how in-exact would that be?

p.s.
I just typed an email and looked back at it and saw FOUR "American idioms"! Sure would hate to be a non-English speaking person trying to translate it word-for-word and get the correct meaning!

1. An idea that I "hoisting up the flag pole to see if anyone saluted"
2. Put my foot in to "test the water"
3. Uncle Curt went "off the wagon" again
4. In traffic yesterday somebody "flipped the bird" at me

Now my son knows what I mean. But we speak idiomatically all the time. Hyperbole, euphemisms, metaphors, synteche - isn't language fun!!

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
Jews were required to bury the dead before sundown.

Correct.

The whole Wed/Thur/Fri debate is moot from that perspective.

When did Jesus rise from the dead?

 

[Taufgesinnter]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
If I say I worked during the day and night on Tuesday, does that mean that I worked all 24 hours? What if I started right before sundown and quit two hours later?

The same kind of language was used in the 1st century.

Friday night
Saturday
Sunday morning

3 days and 3 nights

That's TWO days and TWO nights.

 

[Taufgesinnter]

Originally posted by BrianT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
The Hebrew idiom for this period of time was "three days and threed nights". It is NOT talking about 72 hours.

How do you know this is an idiom?

I recently went on a cruise (it was awesome!). Now if a cruise had advertised "3 days and 3 nights", but the boat left Friday night and came back early Sunday morning, most people would not be too impressed.

</font>[/QUOTE]I think most people would either sue for fraud or breach of contract, or at least demand a full or partial refund.

 

[Nomad]

I think there's good evidence that the Jews regarded any part of a day as a full day. A similar approach helped explain apparent contradictions in the regnal years of the kings of Israel and Judah (any part of a year was considered a whole year). Although Jesus says in Matthew 12:40 that He would spend three days and nights in the grave, elsewhere He predicted His resurrection would occur on the third day (Matthew 16:21), which doesn't require 72 hours to elapse (Sunday is the third day after Friday, counting inclusively). It seems to me that the prophecy can be considered accurate by either system of reckoning.

 

[bryan1276]

3 days and 3 nights is specific time, not an idiom. if God wanted to be nonspecific, he couldve been, but he was precise and gave a number. the crucifixion took place on wednesday

wednsday night =1 night
thrusday day= 1 night, 1 day
thursday night= 1 day 2 nights
friday day= 2 days, 2 nights
friday night=2 days, 3 nights
saturday day= 3 days, 3 nights

he rose saturday @ 6pm, which is when the jews days started--evening and morning is day according to Genesis 1. so the evening starts the new day. their sunday wouldve started @ 6pm on our saturday and thats when Christ arose, the beginning of the first day of the week. no idioms involved, no gimmicks. plain and simple.

 

[wopik]

wed. 3pm to thurs. 3pm = 24 hours

thurs. 3pm to friday 3pm = 24 hours

friday 3pm to saturday 3pm = 24 hours

----

Jesus was crucified and dies around 3PM.

Jesus' body was placed in the tomb at twilight.

http://www.centuryone.com/crucifixion.html

 

[robycop3]

I think something that misleads some people, me included for a number of years is assuming Jesus rose very shortly before the women went to His tomb. It dawned on me one day that He could've been arisen since the previous evening before sunset.

A HIGH SABBATH doesn't necessarily fall upon the weekly Sabbath. This involves another subject which I've been discussing upon another board, but I believe the High Sabbath for which the Jews were preparing while Jesus was on the cross was the Holy Convocation after the day of the paschal meal, as called for in Exodus 12. Nowhere in Scripture is a special Preparation Day called for before the weekly Sabbath, except that on Fridays, Israel was told to gather enough manna for two days, as there'd be none to be gathered on the Sabbath.

Therefore, I'm inclined to believe Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, having eaten the paschal meal the evening before, dying within the 24 hours of paschal day, so HE could become the one-time Paschal of God for all mankind.

 

[rstrats]

Also, Luke 24:21 indicates that the crucifixion could not have occurred any later than Thursday.

 

[rstrats]

Dr. Bob Griffin,

re: “ Hebrew grammar allows the words to be used literally/exactly or as a phrase as an idiom of speech. You can find it in good Hebrew lexicons.”

What documentation do you have that proves that the phrase “three days and three nights” was a unique Jewish idiom that could mean something other than what the phrase means in English - at least parts of three light periods and at least parts of three dark periods? No one In the history of apologetics as far as I know has ever presented any historical documentation to show that the phrase “3 days AND 3 nights” was a unique idiom of Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek which could mean something different than what the phrase means in English.

 

[rstrats]

Nomad,

re: “...Sunday is the third day after Friday...”

What is the first day after Friday?

 

[rstrats]

Daniel David,

re: “If I say I worked during the day and night on Tuesday, does that mean that I worked all 24 hours?”

Not necessarily, but it does mean that at least part of a light period and at least part of a dark period during the same calendar day had to be involved.


re: “What if I started right before sundown and quit two hours later?”

That would mean that you worked part of a light period on Tuesday, and part of a dark period on Wednesday.


re: “The same kind of language was used in the 1st century.”

As I asked Dr. Bob Griffin, what documentation do you have that shows that the phrase “three days and three nights” was used in the first century to mean something other than at least parts of three light periods and at least parts of three dark periods?

 

[Ben W]

Wow,

I am really surprsised that a number of people here are going with the wednesday cricifiction day. I did a study on that subject with the Church of God Seventh Day and it was then that I decided that Wednesday did seem to be the day that Jesus would have been put on the cross.

Yes if we note that the crucifiction was to take place before the passover, we note that Saturday was the normal weekly sabbath, but on that week there was a High Sabbath on Friday for the Passover.

I am just wondering if anyone would be aware of which denominations teach the Wednesday Crucifiction along with COG7? If you are interested here is a link to the COG7 website which has some interesting information on the Wednesday Crucifiction.

http://www.cog7.org/