*Shaking my head*
I do not believe this statement. I do not trust Jimmy Carter. I do not want Jimmy Carter to impose his beliefs of what Baptists should be onto the SBC.
I did not like it when Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson became politically involved from their pulpits (or pseudo-pulpits). I am as uncomfortable as I can be with Carter, Clinton, and Gore and now Graham and Grassley and even Huckabee (who also surprises me) involved in this. The SBC is not perfect, but politicians entering the picture is not the way to fix it. Men and women humbling themselves before God is. Personal committment to mission opportunities in our own neighborhoods is. The last thing we need is another get together unless it is a sincere prayer meeting where we are looking to commit ourselves to share the gospel in effective and productive (and God-inspired) ways.
3 prominent Republicans join Carter, Clinton, Gore on New Covenant roster
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, May 17, 2007.
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This may be a description of reformed theology but it is not a description of conservatives. Going door to door and speaking out against sin is not an area conservatives are lacking in, never has and never will. -
If it were not a problem the numbers would not be on a decline and the SBC spending their time stuck in formaldehyde fighting with each other. People who are doing evangelism do not have time for self preservation. There is too much work to be done to be spending it fighting in an effort to save the already dead who are doing nothing and engaged in self destruction.
If it is not a problem then why did Henry Blackaby address the issue of having conservative theology and living like practical atheists.
When I was in seminary I knew students who had gone to Baptist colleges and universities who had never shared their faith or even given their testimony. In the SBC I was quite shocked to see so many men sitting around while the women did the work. When I asked some other pastors about that they said that was typical for the SBC. Many pastors and told me that if it were not for the women nothing would get done. Years ago when I was looking for a church the woman on the other end of the phone asked me if I visietd people. I told her that I did and she came back with, "Good because the men in our church are working so hard that they do not have time to visit." What she did not know is that I grew up a few miles from where she was. I told her that my parents had a dairy farm and we found time to do what we found important. When she called the second time she asked me the same question again. This time I told her I would come if the men agreed to visit people. I never heard from them again. Every SBC church I pastored and interviewed with had the same problem. The men watched the women do the work.
Maybe you see something I don't. -
The battles that go on in the SBC are a result of a democratic style of governance. And what we have also is conservatives that do not want to cooperate with liberal ideologies and financially send them out into the mission fields of the world. The argument that is is all about self preservation is to miss the real concern for associating with false doctrines that have serious impacts on peoples lives essential or otherwise.
so much of the debates in the convention have also to do with what is being taught in our seminaries that the convention financially supports. The liberla agenda of presenting scripture as neing less clear than it is is not acceptable. And so long as there are those who want to push just such an agenda in the convention we will stand against it without wavering. -
Gold Dragon Well-Known Member
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Gold Dragon Well-Known Member
Here are some FYIs about this convention.
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After the way Carter did this country, (and yes, like an idiot, I voted for him the first time), I wouldnt believe a word he said. He couldnt lead his mother to go out to eat with him. Oh, and Clinton belongs to a Baptist church also. Isnt that nifty?
Why is it that we feel compelled to include rotton to the core, power hungry, self centered politicians into the work of the church? Everybody always criticized Falwell for spreading the Gospel by votes (which they should have done), and the same ones turn right around and invite the likes of these into the holy and sacred work of Christ's Gospel.
No way would I want to unite with anything Carter endorses. Different named Baptists run the gammot from condoning deviant life styles, not believing the entire Bible, to not believing in missions and evangilism, to who knows what else.
The SBC has problems. Given the local church is autonomous, the SBC still stands light years above whatever doctrine they come up with.
The best thing the former presidents and politicians could do is shut up for a change. -
I would not always contend that it is filling church rolls but a lack of discipleship. I know there are pastors who want that position and personal recognition because they are on an ego trip. However there are those who are humble godly men and are never recognized because they will not cave into such nonsense. I know for a fact that one of the leaders in the SBC every week for a few years preached the sermons of another man. Another past leader of the SBC I know who regularly preached against liberalism and said he believed the Bible preached another pastor's sermons for a few years without ever giving credit to the pastor.
Out of the 20% what is the gender of those doing the work in SBC churches. Frankly I got so tired of women doing the work men should have been doing. In one church I pastored I was successful in getting the men to lead. The church was better for it and their families were better for it. It was not an easy task. Perhaps you know the statisitcs in America that more women are in college than men and they get better grades and are more focused. Ever wonder why? -
I assume you are not in the pulpit every Sunday and hearing about the politics from those in the pew. I also assume you really do know what is going on. Sometime do a search on some of the leaders in the conservative resurgence and see where some of their relatives are in relation to the SBC. I know for a fact that one of them pastored a small church that died and then all of a sudden was pastoring a very large church in another state. Seem kinda strange to you?
What would you think if you knew that one of the SBC leaders lied about a man a church had considered their first choice for pastor and then the pulpit committee trusted the SBC leader by no longer considering the man and considered someone else. How would you like to know that the man they finally picked is a trustee at one of the SBC seminaries.
When I finally left the SBC it was amazing how much more time I had. I no longer went to a bunch of meetings where I listened to some guru talk about how to do church and how to make a church grow by reaching the wealthy.
Years ago when I was fresh out of seminary I replanted a church. After awhile I realized that the DOM had planted some churches in the area and the man in charge of church planting had never planted a church. The man in charge of church planting would give me advice that often made no sense. I eventually realized that what he told me was the same thing he was told by someone else. I moved to another state about 1200 miles away and heard exactly the same thing. The difference was that I had lived in that town for 14 years earlier and the man in charge of church planting had never pastored a church and had never planted one.
There are many good local Bible believing , Bible preaching, evangelistic churches who do not have the problems the SBC has. -
I have to wonder what is the agenda of someone who seems to know the secret details of many leaders of one paerticualr organization such as the SBC. I have engaged in this conversation with you. My mistake. Your anti-SBC rhetoric is both wrong and ungodly. I am quite sure you do not have as a full an understanding as you seem to thing you do. But you find things you can place in a dark light. Only someoen with an agenda against someone or something is willing to do this. You are obvious. May God heal your heart. -
Gb,
The other point is that in your story above, about the pulpit committee picking a pastor who had a failed church, or one being dropped and not being considered, you are implying that SBC leadership had a back channels influence in the matter. We are not a heiarchiel denomination like the Methodists or Presbyterians. We do not have presbyteries. The full right to call that pastor rested with the vote of the local congregation. If the local congregation felt that strings were being pulled from above, then they should have voted to dismiss the pulpit committee, and called the person the congregation wanted. If the congregation let SBC bullies run over them, then shame on them. As Baptists, power rests with the people, not the local bishop. -
The truth is his accusation is nothing more than that except it has no evidence just cheap accusations. It sounds more like a suspicion based on personal mistrust contrived out of some hypersensativity. But then that is just what it sounds like. -
IF they really want to bring baptists together LET THEM PROVE IT BY bringing us together to win the LOST, feed the hungry with the intent of presenting the gospel and Christ (and not some worldly compossion but God fearing compassion for their souls), AND for furtherance on tolerance of Judeo-Christian beliefs as much as they do Homosexuals, Islaam, Abortion, and all the other garbage they promote.
Let us have UNITY in what CHRIST told us to be unified in.
But these thing THEY WILL NEVER CONCENT TO.
They use Chirstianity, and Baptists as a punch line as much as they use our Christ for they own agendas and schemes. -
Amazing
I think that it is amazing that any group of people would base a vote for politics on a sham show that this will be. While I cannot agree with the pope on much, I can agree with him that any politician that holds views contrary to scriptural doctrine (not dogma), they should be taken throught the church discipline process and if they still do not respond correctly to scripture then they should be dismissed as a member of that church. I would suggest that the speakers of this convention be the first to go. They are even bringing in people that do not believe the scriptures to speak at this thing. How far have we gone? -
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You bet I have an agenda just as you do. My agenda is to have ungodliness removed. I asume that your agenda is to trust what they feed you without any verification. There are aways two sides to every story and the truth is uaually in there somewhere. Sometimes when you read your Bible and see the actions of some it is quite obvious that something does not add up. Most often I do a search or check some databases to verify something I read. Perhaps you have heard the nonsense and lies so much that it has grown on you and you do not the good from bad. That happened to me while I was pastoring until a new member confronted me on something and then realized how far I had accepted some things without a second thought.
You have got to be blind when you read that Paige Patterson wanted an addition to the president's home and within a few months of that time requested more money for the seminary. I have many friends who are missionaries and a few hundred dollars would go a long way. Who needs a 7500 square foot house to live in? How many people are living in that home? Just stack up what you see against scripture and the qualifications for leaders in a church. Doesn't that fit the greed package for a leader.
Go back and read the SBC papers for the past 10 or 15 years and you will see some consistent practices.
When Dilday was president of SWBTS, one of the trustees stated publically that Dilday did not believe in the inspiration of scripture. I knew he had written a book on that subject. So I checked out the book, read it and found the trustee to be a liar. Within a few weeks the book was pulled from the library shelf. When Dilday was fired the media caught them in a lie and finally the trustees admitted why they said what they did. ne of those trustees was later found ot be shacking up iwht a couple of ladies in his church.
I was told by some faculty member that students at SWBTS heard about former leaders of the SBC who have died long ago being bad mouthed by some of the current leaders in the SBC. It was made public on BB as well.
When was the last time you read about the BFA in the SBC. It is in plain English made available to the public. For awhile it was on the national news. Do a www.google.com search and type in Baptist Foundation of Arizona.
A few years back the SBC talked about one of my friends from seminary so I called him up and what he told me was much different than what the SBC published. He basically told me they had exaggerated the real story. They were extolling the virtues of something he had done in enlisiting their help. He also told me that he would never ask for help from the SBC again.
When the trouble started I called some of the professors at SWBTS to find out what was going on. There were some consistent answers I got from each person I talked to.
In one church I pastored were three members who worked within the SBC organization. Often they came back with stories from their meetings. Sometimes they asked for my opinion about some things. It did not take much to see the handwriting on the wall. There has been a deliberate effort on the part of some of the leaders to bring in people who are very different theologically than what the SBC has been since 1845.
For example Paige Patterson is a dispensationalist. He has made it a point to hire some people with education from DTS and other seminaries and universities that do not hold to the typical SBC theology of the past since 1845. All you have to do is to do some work and see where the faculty have gotten their degrees from and what articles they have published.
There is a lot more of a hidden agenda than you can imagine. I do not trust any of them to tell anyone the real truth.
Just look at the recent garbage in MO with the SBC suing each other. How godly do you find that? Seems starnge thast SBC folks would roll over and play dead letting the secular courts solve their problems.
Prov. 18:17, "The first to plead his case seems right, until another comes and examines him." -
It troubles me that Mike Huckabee is going to be a part of this group. From the names on the list, solid Baptist teaching and doctrine isn't the first thing that comes to mind. As a former Baptist (I believe SBC) preacher, he may be alligning himself with a group that doesn't hold the same values as he does.
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