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Featured 4 of Satan’s biggest lies to born-again believers

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Satan's lie:
    All of your sins (past, present, future)
    have been forgiven


    “For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NKJV)

    >>> “OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

    “… having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)

    >>> “FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

    “… forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)

    >>> “PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

    John is writing to his fellow Christians …

    “But if we confess our sins to him,
    he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
    and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
    This is an extremely important verse …
    all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness – from all their sins …
    We must confess our sins and turn from them …
    We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance … we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance. (The Applied New Testament Commentary;
    Dr. Thomas Hale, missionary to Nepal)


    Paul warns the errant Corinthian church that their …
    “godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation” (2 Corinthians 7:9-10, NKJV)

    Satan's lie:
    You are now righteous


    “… you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living … So now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living” (Romans 6:16-19)


    “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil … Whoever has been born of God does not sin (habitually) … In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:7-10)

    “… who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him” (Acts 10:35)

    “But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness and a godly life … pursue righteous living” (1 Timothy 6:11, 2 Timothy 2:22)

    Satan's lie:
    You are now holy


    “… give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.” (Romans 6:16-19)


    “work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord.” (Hebrews 12:14)

    “God’s will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin … live in holiness and honor. … God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives. Therefore, anyone who refuses to live by these rules is not disobeying human teaching but is rejecting God” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)

    “you must live as God’s obedient children … now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy. For the Scriptures say, ‘You must be holy because I am holy.’ ”
    (1 Peter 1:14-15)


    Satan's lie:
    You have been saved and can never lose salvation

    “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)

    “For to be carnally-minded is (eternal) death, but to be spiritually-minded is (eternal) life and peace.” (Romans 8:5-6)

    “For IF you live according to the flesh you will die (eternal death); but IF by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (eternal life).” (Romans 8:13)

    “For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption (eternal death), but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.” (Galatians 6:7-8)

    “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him … when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
    Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:12-15)

    Jesus often said. “Those who love Me will obey
    My commandments.” (4 times in John 14)
     
    #1 Samuels, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Oh brother :rolleyes:
     
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  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Mitch... You and me both.. My thoughts exactly!... Brother Glen:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  4. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    All I ask of any of you is that you read the verses.
    You don't need to believe them, just read them.
    My job is to get you to read them. Thanks.
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You do not have a job here. Your self designated purpose in being here is primary in why your posts have no credibility. You seem to misunderstand this.
     
  6. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    God's promise:


    I, [even] I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." ( Isaiah 43:25 )

    " As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us." ( Psalms 103:12 ).

    " [saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
    8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."
    ( Romans 4:7 ).

    "who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification." ( Romans 4:25 )


    " And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
    11 in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
    12 buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
    13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    15 [and] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
    ( Colossians 2:10-15 ).

    This one here, should prompt anyone who is looking, for the definition of "sins", "old sins", "iniquities", etc.
    All trespasses means all trespasses.


    " For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." ( Hebrews 8:12 )
    God's promise:

    "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." (Romans 5:9 )

    " But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    22 even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    25 whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    26 to declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
    ( Romans 3:21-26 ).


    " For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."
    ( Romans 1:16-17 )


    "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." ( Romans 6:18 )

    God's promise:

    " And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." ( 1 Corinthians 6:11 ) <----- "Sanctified" means, "made holy".

    " Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
    15 and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
    " ( 2 Corinthians 6:14 ) <----- Declared righteous.

    "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
    26 that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
    27 that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. "
    ( Ephesians 5:25-27 )

    " For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." ( Hebrews 10:14 ) <---- "Made holy".

    God's Promise:

    See the book of John:

    John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:37-40, John 10:28-29, John 11:25-26.

    " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
    9 not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
    " ( Ephesians 2:8-10 ).
     
    #6 Dave Gilbert, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
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  7. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I've read them, Samuels.
    As I indicated in the other thread, this is not the first time I've interacted with people who believe in loss of salvation.

    To be more direct,

    I tried to convince them that salvation was a gift, not a reward for good behavior...
    It seemed none of them were willing to listen.:(

    They were unable to grasp that if salvation was dependent upon the efforts of men, in any way, shape or form, then it is a work of men... not a work of God.
    It is either all of grace, or it gets poluuted by the efforts of sinful men.
    It is works if it depends upon some effort of men to "seal the deal" ( Romans 11:5-6 ).

    Finally, Christ either paid for all sins when He went to the cross, or only some of them.
    I believe them, in their proper contexts.
    I know.;)
     
    #7 Dave Gilbert, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  8. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    I shall repeat myself once again ...

    Those who do not reconcile ALL of the NT verses
    on both sides of an issue have a big problem ...

    ... because they choose to ignore and/or reject
    all of the verses on the opposite side
    of what they believe.

    And one such issue is ...
    the so-called OSAS NT verses
    versus
    the NT verses which oppose OSAS.
     
  9. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    Once again, I will tell you that I have already reconciled them.
    But, since you claim to believe on Christ ( at least I assume that you do, or you wouldn't be here on this forum ), you also have it within yourself to do the exact, same things that I did in order to reconcile them so that they all work together, instead of being opposed to one another and rendering themselves other than what they say at face value.

    But one thing I will not do, is give you some sort of "secret method", or my own "way" of doing it.
    It's not mine to give.
    It's yours to figure out.;)

    Samuels, there aren't "two sides" to the argument, and there is no such thing as "OSAS".
    But there is such a thing as "Once Born-Again, Always Born-Again."

    No man or woman that I know is more powerful than the Lord ( John 10:28-29 ), and can break His sealing of someone ( Ephesians 1:13-14 ), which is stated to be the "earnest", or down-payment until the redemption of the purchased possession....the believer.
    No man can walk away from a God who loves them, and gave Himself for them.

    Firstly, He will not let them.
    Secondly, they will not let themselves.
    Their hearts are now forever changed, and they cannot undo the miraculous work that their Saviour has done...and one that only He could have done.

    To God's children, He is a friend that sticks closer than a brother.:)

    To His enemies, He is a wall that cannot be overcome, and a Judge whose face will always be against them.:(
    There is no "in between".

    Mankind is of one of two groups...the children of God, or the children of the devil.
    The lost and the saved;
    "Goats" and "sheep".
    "Lively stones" and dead hearts and minds.
    The righteous, and the wicked.
    Those that are justified by the blood of His Son, and those who try to justify themselves in His sight, by their own works.

    Just because you may think that a person can walk away from Him, does not negate the fact that He said that He would never leave them, nor forsake them ( Hebrews 13:5 ).
    What that would resemble, if it were true, would be me failing to obey Him, and Him running after me beging me to return to Him...
    and ultimately being cast into Hell for failing to walk the narrow path.


    That narrow path is not something the believer walks in, by the imperfect strength of their wicked flesh, but by the perfect strength of their Friend's perfect, indwelling Spirit...
    Which cannot fail to finish God's work in them ( Philippians 1:6 ).
     
    #9 Dave Gilbert, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  10. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    You have not reconciled them because
    you reject the verses which state that ...
    a church member can receive eternal death
    because he/she chooses ...
    to be a slave of sin
    to be involved in habitual sin
    to live in the flesh
    to not obey Jesus' commandments
    to not practice righteousness
    to not work at living a holy life
    to draw back to perdition
    to return and also follow the Law
    to not endure in the faith
    to not endure persecution
    to not refuse the mark of the beast
    How many good ones have I missed?

    Please do not confuse Ephesians.
    Paul wrote it to "the faithful", not to the unfaithful.
    There are faithful BACs and unfaithful BACs.

    God WILL let BACs walk away from Him.
    Why do you think He gave us free will?

    The NT says that disobedience proves unbelief.
    Who? Unbelievers? No. Believers.

    Hebrews has no less than 5 major warnings
    about falling away, etc.

    Now, I know it can be argued that God may have given many warnings in the NT to help BACs
    stay on the narrow path to heaven.
    However, some of the warnings about losing
    eternal life are so obvious ... that if they are NOT true, then He is bluffing, exaggerating, or lying even.

    You are indeed foolish, if you think that I am trying to justify myself in His sight by my own works. I am merely pointing out the NT verses which are ignored and/or rejected by most of today's church-goers, most of whom are involved in habitual sin
    (and are therefore lost). Ditto for many pastors!

    Hopefully, this information will help someone here!
     
    #10 Samuels, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  11. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    You've missed the most important ones...
    Christ's promises to His sheep.
    I'm not.
    Yes, I agree that the letter to the Ephesians was written to born again believers.
    There are faithful ones and "unfaithful" ones.
    "Wheat", and "tares" ( Matthew 13 ).
    False brethren, who are the children of the devil, and true ones, who are the children of God.
    False teachers ( 2 Peter 2 ) who go back to their wallowing in the mire, and true teachers, who do not.
     
  12. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    No He will not.

    A) They love Him.
    B) Christ will lose none of the ones His Father has given Him.
    To mess things up, and then to rescue us from those messes.:)
    Spoken to a people who had a bad history of not listening to Him.
    The warnings are no less real, but since salvation cannot be lost, the understanding of those warnings is taking into account both believers and "believers".
    I once thought so, until I continued my studies and over time, the answers began to coalesce.
    The solution I arrived at, was with respect to what I have revealed.

    There are false believers, "tares", sown in among the field of Christ's "wheat"...
    Pharisees and publicans.
    People who think they are believers, because of something they have done for God.
    Christ's sheep are people who are believers, because of what He has done for them.

    It all makes perfect sense to me, once the false "Christians", who are trying to get out of Hell by their own efforts at being holy and "believing", are factored in.
    It also makes perfect sense in the light of this:

    " not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. "
    ( Titus 3:5-7 )



    I wish you well, sir.:)
     
  13. Hollow Man

    Hollow Man Member

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    Sorry, friend, but that sounds like you believe in an insufficient atonement and a works based gospel.

    Christ's atonement, when applied to the believer, forgives sin, past, present, and future. We are also adopted as children of God when we are born again. If Christ's atonement does not mean all our sins are forgiven, then how can you not believe God abandons His children when we sin?

    Are you Catholic, by any chance?
     
  14. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    This is at odds with the several NT verses which clearly say that those who practice righteousness
    are righteous (in God's eyes).
    Meanwhile, we're getting nowhere.
     
  15. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Aaaah, you must be referring to John 10:27-28.
    The sheep who hear Jesus' voice and follow Him.

    The ones whom He knows.
    W. E. Vine says "knew" in Matthew 7:23
    means "approved of".

    He doesn't "approve of" BACs in Matthew 7:21...
    who are disobedient, which displays their unbelief
    who do not do God's will
    who practice lawlessness
     
  16. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Are you born-again, by any chance?
    Born-again people are taught spiritual Truth
    by the precious Holy Spirit.
     
  17. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    Those that practice righteousness are born again, and cleansed by the blood of His son.
    They are indwelt with His Spirit who they walk in the power of, so that they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh ( Galatians 5:16-17 ).
    I agree.
    To me, your way of thinking is no different than anyone else I know, who holds to loss of salvation.:(
    Those aren't born again Christians that He's talking to in Matthew 7:21-23;

    They are people who thought they were, because they did what they thought was "required". :(
    Christ knows His own, which you agree to in this quote:
    "Goats" do not follow the Shepherd of the sheep.
    He does not know, personally, the devil's children... those that have "believed", but not truly believed.
    They don't follow Him, and they never will, because they hate Him ( John 3:19-20, John 15:18 ).

    On Judgment Day,
    He will not tell those that He knows and loves, "I never knew you".
    He will tell them, " ...Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: " ( Matthew 25:34 )
     
    #17 Dave Gilbert, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  18. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I think he may be asking you that, because the Roman Catholic Church ( among other denominations ) views sins in two categories..."mortal" and "venial", while God does not.
    Sins of "commission" and sins of "omission".
    Sins that lead to eternal death, and sins that do not.

    They also believe that "maintaining a clean slate" with respect to confessed sins is the opposite of "falling from grace".
    That is why it is so important for devout Catholics to go to confession...
    Because they are very concerned about their "state of grace".

    In addition, they view salvation as a cooperative effort between man and God, and their every effort is geared towards escaping Hell...
    Not as an operative effort by God to a sinner, which consists of obedience out of a love for saving them and involves a personal, spirit-to-spirit relationship with God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.

    To them, Jesus Christ is not their "personal" Saviour...or so I've gathered from most of the Catholics I have known, including many family members.
    He is their Judge, and Mary makes intercession between the believer and Christ, and Jesus then acts as the Mediator between them and God the Father...

    Mary is the object of love, for many.
     
    #18 Dave Gilbert, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  19. Hollow Man

    Hollow Man Member

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    I am. Are you Catholic?
     
  20. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    The last thing in the world I would ever do
    would belong to the RCC.
    One of the most obvious reasons today
    is the condition of the current pope.
     
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