77% Foreigners chose Kerry - no surprise there, LOL

Just as the majority of Americans are anti-French?

 

Exactly. Just as the majority of Americans are anti-UN (including those in the CP).

Joseph Botwinick

 

While I am anti-UN, I am not anti-foreign nations.

 

Why are you anti-UN? I am guessing that somewhere in that long list of reasons are the same reasons I am against France and Germany. Oil for Food Scandal, support for terrorists, anti-American sentiments, etc...

Am I right?

Joseph Botwinick

 

I am anti-UN primalriy because it seeks to take away national sovereignty.

All nations have the right to exercise their own sovereingty. They need not fall into line behind the UN or ANY OTHER nation.

 

Duly noted it, and thank you for it.

Corinne

 

Let's see. Chirac had a chance to meet with the new Iraqi leader Allawyi, and snubbed him instead to meet with Arafat. No, I don't believe we are in this together. The French Government is buried up to their ears in the corrupt oil for food scandal where they promised a veto to Saddam of American action for his oil. No, I don't believe we are on the same side.

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Joseph,

Maybe you saw a French snub when Chirac skipped a recent meeting with Allawi (only Interim leader), but to my knowledge, he had to fly to Abu Dhabi to pay his respects to the new president of the United Arab Emirates, after the death of his father.

Please note that Iraqi President Ghazi al-Yawer has accepted an invitation to meet him in Paris. Therefore nobody is snubbing anybody, there are just circumstances which sometimes mean that you have to make difficult decisions, like whether you prefer to honour a dead leader's memory and pay your respects to his family, or whether you prefer to SNUB that family in favour of someone who is ONLY AN INTERIM LEADER !!!!

I think maybe it is best if you and I both keep out of politics, we'd make a fine mess of foreign relations.

France is not pro-Arafat, it is in favour of a Palestine State (not quite the same thing - not our fault if Arafat was THE palestinian leader everybody has to deal with up to now). So is Bush, he has said it enough himself. There are different ways of reaching agreement in the construction of such a State and it seems you think that the French way and the American way differ. What counts is the result. There is a need for a Palestinian State and once Arafat is dead, the task might become easier.

When I said we are on the same side, I meant that as a Christian country we are on the same wavelength as America. ALright there are more catholics in France than evangelical protestants (even proportionally), but Christians all the same. And the rise of Islam in France (and elsewhere too) is very worrying. When America has the same percentage of muslims in its population as France does, then you will understand that threat. They will want their religion to be represented, they will want mosques in every village and city, and God knows what else. Most Muslims want everybody to be Muslims just like them, just like we Christians would like to see everyone become a Christian.

France is under the islamic threat and troubles are already on the rise. Jewish tombs are profanated by these people. This in itself is a kind of terrorism we have to deal with, and believe me it is very present, not just hypothetical. Be happy that you do not have such a presence and threat on your soil - YET.

So I meant to say that there is no differnce between an American Christian and a French Christian. We are all Christians, we are from the same family, and we therefore are all on the same side, because we are at the side of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Corinne
http://www.christianresistance.com

 

Joseph,

By saying that the majority of the French people is anti american is very insulting and shows you know little about our country. It is absolutely not true. Of course, like in every country, there are people who do not like anyone, including America, but they are a minority. Everybody who remembers the WWII (and believe me, school programs hammer it into our kids that the good guys are the americans and the bad guys are the nazis) is GRATEFUL to America, and the majority of our youth is very pro american, they all want to go and live there, study there. People remember, and love America.

You are too manichean in your reasoning. Because Chirac wanted to go to Iraq with the assent of the UN rather than on a go-it-alone basis does not mean AT ALL that the French are anti-american, that we do not agree with the removal of Sadam and that we think the war is a mistake. It is just that Bush and Blair could have waited a bit longer, as there was no immediate threat.

Corinne

 

Let's see. Chirac had a chance to meet with the new Iraqi leader Allawyi, and snubbed him instead to meet with Arafat. No, I don't believe we are in this together. The French Government is buried up to their ears in the corrupt oil for food scandal where they promised a veto to Saddam of American action for his oil. No, I don't believe we are on the same side.

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Joseph,

Maybe you saw a French snub when Chirac skipped a recent meeting with Allawi (only Interim leader), but to my knowledge, he had to fly to Abu Dhabi to pay his respects to the new president of the United Arab Emirates, after the death of his father. </font>[/QUOTE]I looked this up in the French media AFP, and you are correct on this point. My apologies and I retract my statement about Chirac snubbing Allawi.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Let's see. Chirac had a chance to meet with the new Iraqi leader Allawyi, and snubbed him instead to meet with Arafat. No, I don't believe we are in this together. The French Government is buried up to their ears in the corrupt oil for food scandal where they promised a veto to Saddam of American action for his oil. No, I don't believe we are on the same side.

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Joseph,

France is not pro-Arafat, it is in favour of a Palestine State (not quite the same thing - not our fault if Arafat was THE palestinian leader everybody has to deal with up to now). So is Bush, he has said it enough himself. There are different ways of reaching agreement in the construction of such a State and it seems you think that the French way and the American way differ. What counts is the result. There is a need for a Palestinian State and once Arafat is dead, the task might become easier.</font>[/QUOTE]I agree.

When I said we are on the same side, I meant that as a Christian country we are on the same wavelength as America. ALright there are more catholics in France than evangelical protestants (even proportionally), but Christians all the same. And the rise of Islam in France (and elsewhere too) is very worrying. When America has the same percentage of muslims in its population as France does, then you will understand that threat. They will want their religion to be represented, they will want mosques in every village and city, and God knows what else. Most Muslims want everybody to be Muslims just like them, just like we Christians would like to see everyone become a Christian.[/QUOTE]

I have no problem with freedom of religion, even if it isn't my religion. I do have a problem with Islamic extremists like Hamas, just like I have a problem with "Christian" extremists like Fred Phelps.

France is under the islamic threat and troubles are already on the rise. Jewish tombs are profanated by these people. This in itself is a kind of terrorism we have to deal with, and believe me it is very present, not just hypothetical. Be happy that you do not have such a presence and threat on your soil - YET.[/QUOTE]

You don't know much about America if you think Jews don't face that kind of harrassment and vandalism. My wife teaches at a Jewish Pre-school and they have had Nazi Swastikas painted on the signs at the entrance of the temple several times. They have a security system that would probably rival the state capital because of the threat of terrorism that exist against them.

So I meant to say that there is no differnce between an American Christian and a French Christian. We are all Christians, we are from the same family, and we therefore are all on the same side, because we are at the side of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Corinne
http://www.christianresistance.com [/QUOTE]

Although, I have doubts about Catholics and their false doctrines of works salvation, I understand your point. My point is that politically, we are not on the same side. That is quite evident I think.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Let's see. Chirac had a chance to meet with the new Iraqi leader Allawyi, and snubbed him instead to meet with Arafat. No, I don't believe we are in this together. The French Government is buried up to their ears in the corrupt oil for food scandal where they promised a veto to Saddam of American action for his oil. No, I don't believe we are on the same side.

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Joseph,

Maybe you saw a French snub when Chirac skipped a recent meeting with Allawi (only Interim leader), but to my knowledge, he had to fly to Abu Dhabi to pay his respects to the new president of the United Arab Emirates, after the death of his father. </font>[/QUOTE]I looked this up in the French media AFP, and you are correct on this point. My apologies and I retract my statement about Chirac snubbing Allawi.

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Apologies accepted. Thank you.

Corinne
http://www.christianresistance.com

 

TM= trademark. I often use this as a bit of a rhetorical device when using phrases or caricaturing phrases that are well-worn by a particular interest group.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

You don't know much about America if you think Jews don't face that kind of harrassment and vandalism. My wife teaches at a Jewish Pre-school and they have had Nazi Swastikas painted on the signs at the entrance of the temple several times. They have a security system that would probably rival the state capital because of the threat of terrorism that exist against them.</font>[/QUOTE]Except that here, generally speaking, the vandalism is perpetrated not by "them", the Islamic threat, but by "us", American born & bred white Christians. That is a significant difference.