I make that statement because I absolutely deserve to be sent to hell and not have my sins ransomed by the Son of God. So does everyone else, including you. That group that you think I lord it over is the group that I should be in. Only God knows why he does exactly what he claims to do in Romans 9. God has mercy on whom he has mercy.
Are you so utterly clueless as to God's amazing grace that you cannot conceive of the grace that it takes from God to save just one sinner (let alone the billions that God has saved from Adam to the present moment)?
Do you realize that in your rant, you called John Newton, the writer of the hymn "Amazing Grace," a cult member? Does it even compute what your accusation is and how far away from God's Spirit your statement lands?
That you think I find pleasure in the damnation of any soul is an indication that you are utterly clueless regarding the doctrines of grace.
I honestly have no idea who has put the ideas you espouse into your ear, but whoever has been teaching you is a terrible teacher who will answer to God as an elder and shepherd.
A Dispensationalist View of Calvinism
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JD731, Jun 25, 2022.
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Concerning Romans 9, Paul is quoting Hosea and all the players in that chapter are related to Abraham in the flesh. IOW, Romans 7 through 11 is in a context of his physical offspring and how the history of the church, which at the time of the writing of this epistle in 58 AD is already 28 years old with gentiles being included in it for 18 of those years. It was written sometime during the events of Acts 18 from Corinth. He is explaining how the children of Abraham becomes the sons of God and if the explanation of the times in relation to the covenants and promises that are uniquely Jewish but now includes gentiles is not explained here then it is explained nowhere in scripture. It should occur to the reader of these epistles to turn to OT passages that are being quoted and try to figure out the thinking of God. His thinking is more important than John Calvins.
And grace is the principle by which God is saving gentiles because he has made no promise to save us. The blood of Christ is how he is doing it. You will not accept this truth but your relatives are clearly described before God opened the door of faith and gave Jesus Christ as our blood sacrifice in Acts 10. Check yourself out here;
11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time
ye were without Christ,
being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and
strangers from the covenants of promise,
having no hope, and
without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
"Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins," we are told. The gentiles had no blood sacrifice in the OT and in the first part of the NT, therefore were not reconciled to God.
Lu 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
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JD, you seem to be lacking discernment.
So, you aren't corrupt to your core. You were not saved without merit. Jesus didn't die for his children. God isn't strong enough to save a person if the person has a strong enough will. God doesn't give perseverance to Christians. All those statements would be true by your assertion. Honestly, do you actually read what you write?
May God break the prejudice in your heart and open your spirit to all of his word. It is clear you don't know much of God's Word at present. -
Jesus Christ saved the woman at the well in Samaria in John 4. Then he spent two days there and taught the Samarians at their request. They learned something very important about Jesus Christ during those two days and now we know what it was they learned.
Read about it.
John 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world <2889>.
John, who was an apostle, and the disciple whom Jesus loved, said this about him.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. <2889>
I am sorry Mr. Sararitan and I am sorry Mr. John but you need to check in with Mr AustinC because he has the real skinny of who Jesus is. He wants us to know that his Jesus did not come to be the saviour of the world <2889>, but the savior of the elect who were pre-chosen before the foundation of the world, and whom the scriptures knows nothing about.
I would like to testify with these people of the scriptures, I have heard him myself in the word, and I know he is the Son of God, sent by his Father to be the savior of the world. -
If you actually stepped out of your bigotry, you would know that Reformed theology is deeply immersed in scripture. Much more than you. I have told you that I am willing and able to exegete any passage in scripture with you so we can look at what God has to say to us. You seem unwilling to do this, but instead play the role of accuser. Note who plays that role in the Bible, JD.
JD, here is a document of the scripture where God tells us of his choosing. It is 6 pages of scripture. You are sarcastic in your ignorance, not because you have a valid point. Read God's Word. Tell me if I am making up any of the scripture passages.
At this point, you are showing us your pride.Attached Files:
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George Antonios Well-Known Member
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Hebrews 8:8, ". . . For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: . . ." We call it New Testament Christianity . . . . -
From what the NT states the Atonement was for Adam's flesh, both Gentiles and Israelites. There is no specific application to Israel. -
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Well, I posted two verses that says Jesus Christ is the savior of the world. Once before the cross and resurrection, and once afterward. I did not quote JD731 saying anything. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the savior of the world. It is too simple to get wrong.
Behold, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. <2889>
For then must he often have suffered from the foundation of the world <2889> but now once in the end of the world <165> hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself He 9:26
Sin is the transgression of the law 1 Jn 3:4
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world 2889> unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5:19
(For until the law sin was in the world <2889>: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Rom 5:13
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Rom 10:4
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours (his little children to whom he is writing) only, but also for the sins of the whole world <2889>. `1 Jn 2:2
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: He 9:27
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world <3625> in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Acts 17:31
Calvinism denies the once and for all time blood atonement for the sins of the whole world and how God was satisfied with the offering of his Son for the sins of the whole world and because of that he is not imputing their sins to them before they die or the day of the Lord comes. This is a very serious denial.
But, my thread is not for the purpose of debating Calvinism because I have done that already. My purpose is to register my view as a dispensationalist on this false religious system that honors no context and believes no words and exalts itself. Believe me, you will have nothing new to offer. -
And, if you deny that you are teaching universalism, then you make salvation by works and not by grace since it is the human and the human will that either saves or damns themselves. In the second position God becomes secondary to man.
Which one are you then proposing? The only other possibility is that Jesus atonement is particular only to those who believe, which therefore makes it limited. It is once and for all who believe, but you are thinking it's universalism, which is a dangerous path to travel.
So far, you have not dealt with dispensationalism at all. Why? Because dispensationalism is not about salvation.
Do you see your confusion or are you still scratching your head and stumbling in the dark? -
There is no such thing as being chosen before the foundation of the world. A doctrine like that makes the atonement of Christ an incidental necessity. -
When John the Baptist declared "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world" was he speaking universally? If so, then all humanity is made perfect before God and every human is justified, without spot or blemish. Every human from Adam to the end of time will be in heaven.
Do you think that is what John the Baptist meant?
As for the covenantal atoning sacrifices in the nation of Israel, you must read Hebrews. Note that the priests had to continually offer sacrifices for the people as well as themselves. Also note that those sacrifices were for the chosen people of God The elect. (Did you read the document I provided to you?) But, Jesus is greater than the Old Covenant, which pointed toward Jesus. Jesus is both the sacrifice and the High Priest. He is far superior in both ways. As a sacrifice he only had to sacrifice once. His atonement was for all the elect, chosen people of God. He did not have to atone for his own sins, like the high priests of Israel because he perfectly kept the law. He is greater than all old covenant and its foreshadowing because He fulfilled it all. JD, do you not know these things? Has your mentor not explained this? Has he pointed you toward universalism and taught that all humanity is fully, universally atoned for by Jesus? Do you even comprehend what that implies?
At present, your doctrine is so messed up that you really have no idea what you are talking about. You are presently arguing for a heresy, rejected by Christians, yet you don't know it. Read your Bible. I couldn't care less if you hold to dispensationalism, but I do care that you presently hold to a form of universalism that is contrary to the Bible and to God himself. -
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Look at the circularity of the comment.
Jesus paid all sins, but you, by your free will, must do the accepting. If you don't accept, God is casting a perfect and holy person into hell because of one bad choice...that Jesus paid for in the cross. You are in a never ending loop of contradiction. -
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The work is not on getting saved. The work by humans is to constantly avoid salvation. No one is automatically saved. They are just automatically elected by God to be saved. Those who do give up their will, just end up being the ones elected that count.
Calvinist claim the Atonement was only for the elect, making the starting point narrow. What is even the point to think about salvation, if there literally is no choice in the matter?
Universalism is the teaching that no one is a sinner. Not that all humanity has been elected to be redeemed.
Since not every one knows they are elected, they need to hear about the Atonement. That is why the Gospel has to go out to all. Then those hearing can reject which does narrow down the end result.
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