• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

A Just Redemption

KenH

Well-Known Member
"The justice of God shines brightly in redemption by Christ; "Zion, and her converts, are redeemed in righteousness"; a full price is paid for the redemption of them; and in it "mercy and truth meet together, and righteousness and peace kiss each other": and though it is not for all men, no injustice is done to them that are not redeemed; for if God could in justice have condemned all, it can be no act of injustice to redeem and save some. Suppose one hundred slaves in Algiers, and a man out of his great generosity, lays down a ransom price for fifty of them, does he, by this act of distinguished goodness and generosity, do any injustice to the others? or can they righteously complain of him for not ransoming them? In the justification of men, by the righteousness of Christ, the justice of God is very conspicuous; for though God justifies the ungodly, yet not without a perfect righteousness, such as is adequate to the demands of his righteous law; even the righteousness of his own Son, in the imputation of which, and justification by it, he appears to be "just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus" (Romans 3:26). Though God forgives sin, yet not without a satisfaction made to his justice; though it is according to the riches of his grace, yet through the blood of Christ shed for it; and upon the ground of the shedding of that blood, God "is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness", (1 John 1:9) and so it is both an act of grace and of justice; as is eternal glory and happiness, being the free gift of God, through Christ and his righteousness.

- from John Gill's A Body of Doctrinal Divinity



"First, justifying righteousness is the doing and suffering of Christ when he was in the world. This is clear, because we are said to be “justified by his obedience” (Rom. 5:19); by his obedience to the law. Hence he is said again to be the end of the law for that very thing—“Christ is the end of the law for righteousness,” etc. (Rom. 10:4). The end, what is that? Why, the requirement or demand of the law. But what is it? Why, righteousness, perfect righteousness (Gal. 3:10). Perfect righteousness, what to do? That the soul concerned might stand spotless in the sight of God (Rev. 1:5). Now this lies only in the doings and sufferings of Christ; for “by his obedience many are made righteous”; wherefore as to this Christ is the end of the law, that being found in that obedience, that becomes to us sufficient for our justification. Hence, we are said to be made righteous by his obedience; yea, and to be washed, purged, and justified by his blood (Heb. 9:14; Rom. 5:18, 19)."

From John Bunyan's Justification by an Imputed Righteousness



How Sinners Are Justified Before God

“I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.” (Luke 18:14)

The reason our LORD gave the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican was to show the contrast between the character of a self-righteous, unregenerate sinner and one who is truly righteous before God by the person and work of the LORD Jesus Christ alone. The self-righteous Pharisee, typical of those in works religion today, considered himself to be above others and even in his so-called ‘prayer,’ did nothing but glorify himself and his works. The publican, on the other hand, demonstrated a true Spirit-given humility before God, knowing himself a sinner and pleading only God‘s mercy, looking to Christ and His propitious sacrifice alone.

When our LORD said that this man went down to his house justified, was it based on his prayer? Many wrongly assume that the publican came into the temple unjustified and then left justified because he prayed a ‘sinner’s prayer.’ However, it is not the will, work, or way of a sinner that could ever justify him before God, Galatians 2:16. It is only by the work of the LORD Jesus alone, in His shed blood unto death that any sinner is justified. When the publican prayed, ‘God be merciful to me a sinner,’he was not looking within himself for his justification but to the work of the LORD Jesus that He would accomplish on His behalf at the cross. The word ‘merciful’ means to be propitious or reconciled. In the Old Testament, it refers to the mercy seat over the Ark of the Covenant on which the High Priest sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice on the Day of the Atonement, Leviticus 16. This was a foreshadowing of the bloodshed unto death of the LORD Jesus at the cross, not just to ‘atone’ (cover) for sin but to put it away, once and for all. The shed blood unto death of the LORD Jesus has therefore effectually taken away the sin of all of God’s elect at one time, in one place and one Sacrifice, Hebrews 10:14. To say that the publican went down to his house justified because of his prayer or even his ‘faith’ would make the justification of sinners to be based upon something other than the redemption, propitiation and reconciliation of Christ alone, Romans 5:10. That could not be!

The Truth is this: until Christ died to pay for the horrible sin debt of His elect, God the Father was forbearing with their sin, Romans 3:25, not imputing it to them, Romans 4:8. Those of the Old Testament, like this publican at this time, lived by God’s PROMISE that when Christ came He would put away their sin in His death on the cross, [Romans 4:13, Hebrews 11:13-14]. This is the ‘righteousness of faith’ of which Paul speaks. It is the righteousness that Christ earned, established and that the Father accepted and immediately imputed at the cross. This is ‘the law of faith’ in Romans 3:27, in contrast to ‘the law of works’. It is in this God revealed FAITH (Christ and Him crucified) that the publican went to his house justified rather than the Pharisee! He humbled himself because of the Spirit of Christ in him, therefore as a wretched sinner he was exalted when the LORD Jesus rose from the grave and ascended on high having paid his sin debt. What a Glorious Redeemer the LORD Jesus is and what a glorious salvation He has accomplished for PUBLICANS such as we are.

- by Ken Wimer, Pastor, Shreveport Grace Church, Shreveport, Louisiana - How Sinners Are Justified Before God by Ken Wimer | SermonAudio
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"SNIP

The Truth is this: until Christ died to pay for the horrible sin debt of His elect, God the Father was forbearing with their sin, Romans 3:25, not imputing it to them, Romans 4:8. Those of the Old Testament, like this publican at this time, lived by God’s PROMISE that when Christ came He would put away their sin in His death on the cross, [Romans 4:13, Hebrews 11:13-14]. This is the ‘righteousness of faith’ of which Paul speaks. It is the righteousness that Christ earned, established and that the Father accepted and immediately imputed at the cross. This is ‘the law of faith’ in Romans 3:27, in contrast to ‘the law of works’. It is in this God revealed FAITH (Christ and Him crucified) that the publican went to his house justified rather than the Pharisee! He humbled himself because of the Spirit of Christ in him, therefore as a wretched sinner, he was exalted when the LORD Jesus rose from the grave and ascended on high having paid his sin debt. What a Glorious Redeemer the LORD Jesus is and what a glorious salvation He has accomplished for PUBLICANS such as we are.

- by Ken Wimer, Pastor, Shreveport Grace Church, Shreveport, Louisiana - How Sinners Are Justified Before God by Ken Wimer | SermonAudio

SNIP

Christ died as a ransom for all, becoming the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, purchasing those to be saved and those never to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:2, 2 Peter 2:1.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
SNIP

Christ died as a ransom for all, becoming the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, purchasing those to be saved and those never to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:2, 2 Peter 2:1.

Of course, those verses don't read;

for the whole of humanity

and, therefore, do not Teach, by The Inspiration of The Holy Spirit;

for the whole of humanity

and
for the whole of humanity

has to be ADDED, as a simpleton-type, non-"interpretation", turned into blasphemy

. "King James Bible
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
"

The blasphemous ADDITION of
for the whole of humanity
has The Lord God, Jesus, Dying on the cross, for souls that are now, or will be, spending Eternity in The Lake of Fire.

To say that is impossible for, "all", or "whole" to mean anything but,
for the whole of humanity

contradicts the Bible instructions, throughout, regarding, "all", or "whole" to mean, to actually have a Spiritually Inspired Interpretation of "all kinds", or "the Gentile world, while already implying "God's Chosen people, The Jews.

King James Bible
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

There are only "many" who understand that are led by the Spirit of God and

"A ransom for MANY", must be allowed as possible, by the Bible Interpreter, so as to not "make God a Liar".


King James Bible
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And he is the propitiation for our sins,.... For the sins of us who now believe, and are Jews:
and not for ours only; but for the sins of Old Testament saints, and of those who shall hereafter believe in Christ, and of the Gentiles also, signified in the next clause:

but also for the sins of the whole world; the Syriac version renders it, "not for us only, but also for the whole world"; that is, not for the Jews only, for John was a Jew, and so were those he wrote unto, but for the Gentiles also. Nothing is more common in Jewish writings than to call the Gentiles "the world"; and , "the whole world"; and , "the nations of the world" (l); See Gill on ; and the word "world" is so used in Scripture; see John 3:16; and stands opposed to a notion the Jews have of the Gentiles, that , "there is no propitiation for them" (m): and it is easy to observe, that when this phrase is not used of the Gentiles, it is to be understood in a limited and restrained sense; as when they say (n),

"it happened to a certain high priest, that when he went out of the sanctuary, , "the whole world" went after him;''

which could only design the people in the temple. And elsewhere (o) it is said,

"amle ylwk, "the "whole world" has left the Misna, and gone after the "Gemara";''

which at most can only intend the Jews; and indeed only a majority of their doctors, who were conversant with these writings: and in another place (p),

"amle ylwk, "the whole world" fell on their faces, but Raf did not fall on his face;''

where it means no more than the congregation. Once more, it is said (q), when

"R. Simeon ben Gamaliel entered (the synagogue), , "the whole world" stood up before him;''

that is, the people in the synagogue: to which may be added (r),

"when a great man makes a mourning, , "the whole world" come to honour him;''

i.e. a great number of persons attend the funeral pomp: and so these phrases, , "the whole world" is not divided, or does not dissent (s); , "the whole world" are of opinion (t), are frequently met with in the Talmud, by which, an agreement among the Rabbins, in certain points, is designed; yea, sometimes the phrase, "all the men of the world" (u), only intend the inhabitants of a city where a synagogue was, and, at most, only the Jews: and so this phrase, "all the world", or "the whole world", in Scripture, unless when it signifies the whole universe, or the habitable earth, is always used in a limited sense, either for the Roman empire, or the churches of Christ in the world, or believers, or the present inhabitants of the world, or a part of them only, Luke 2:1; and so it is in this epistle, 1 John 5:19; where the whole world lying in wickedness is manifestly distinguished from the saints, who are of God, and belong not to the world; and therefore cannot be understood of all the individuals in the world; and the like distinction is in this text itself, for "the sins of the whole world" are opposed to "our sins", the sins of the apostle and others to whom he joins himself; who therefore belonged not to, nor were a part of the whole world, for whose sins Christ is a propitiation as for theirs: so that this passage cannot furnish out any argument for universal redemption; for besides these things, it may be further observed, that for whose sins Christ is a propitiation, their sins are atoned for and pardoned, and their persons justified from all sin, and so shall certainly be glorified, which is not true of the whole world, and every man and woman in it; moreover, Christ is a propitiation through faith in his blood, the benefit of his propitiatory sacrifice is only received and enjoyed through faith; so that in the event it appears that Christ is a propitiation only for believers, a character which does not agree with all mankind; add to this, that for whom Christ is a propitiation he is also an advocate, 1 John 2:1; but he is not an advocate for every individual person in the world; yea, there is a world he will not pray for John 17:9, and consequently is not a propitiation for them. Once more, the design of the apostle in these words is to comfort his "little children" with the advocacy and propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, who might fall into sin through weakness and inadvertency; but what comfort would it yield to a distressed mind, to be told that Christ was a propitiation not only for the sins of the apostles and other saints, but for the sins of every individual in the world, even of these that are in hell? Would it not be natural for persons in such circumstances to argue rather against, than for themselves, and conclude that seeing persons might be damned notwithstanding the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, that this might, and would be their case. In what sense Christ is a propitiation; see Gill on Romans 3:25. The Jews have no notion of the Messiah as a propitiation or atonement; sometimes they say (w) repentance atones for all sin; sometimes the death of the righteous (x); sometimes incense (y); sometimes the priests' garments (z); sometimes it is the day of atonement (a); and indeed they are in the utmost puzzle about atonement; and they even confess in their prayers (b), that they have now neither altar nor priest to atone for them; See Gill on 1 John 4:10."

One way to receive "Calvinism", as The plain Bible teaching that it is, is to get on your face before God the rest of the weekend and ask Him if it is possible that your assumption
for the whole of humanity
, etc., could be Infinantly mistaken.

Bible Interpretation generally begins with a Spiritually dead sinner who has been lost, but now is Quickened by The Holy Spirit to Eternal Life. In other words, they begin as not knowing it all, but as Totally Depraved.

THEN, they have the Spirit of God to Lead them to Interpretations that Honor God.

AND that are actually IN THE BIBLE.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Of course, those verses don't read;
SNIP

The blasphemous ADDITION of has The Lord God, Jesus, Dying on the cross, for souls that are now, or will be, spending Eternity in The Lake of Fire.
SNIP.

2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

Therefore the blasphemous Deletion of Scripture is the claim Jesus did not die as a ransom for all, those to be saved and as above, those heading for swift destruction. Also since 1 John 2:2 puts our means of salvation in parallel with the means of salvation for everyone else, another "blasphemous" alteration of the text is to claim the whole world does not refer to the whole of humanity.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
One way to receive "Calvinism", as The plain Bible teaching that it is, is to get on your face before God the rest of the weekend and ask Him if it is possible that your assumption.

Quote without comment. :)
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

Therefore the blasphemous Deletion of Scripture is the claim Jesus did not die as a ransom for all, those to be saved and as above, those heading for swift destruction. Also since 1 John 2:2 puts our means of salvation in parallel with the means of salvation for everyone else, another "blasphemous" alteration of the text is to claim the whole world does not refer to the whole of humanity.


King James Bible
Love not the world,
the whole of humanity.

neither the things that are in the world.
the whole of humanity.

If any man love the world,
the whole of humanity.

the love of the Father is not in him.

You can flick a word up out of the Bible and demand it has no other possible meaning, despite other obvious scripture comparisons, but when you try to be consistent (if you ever do) and apply that same meaning, of
the whole of humanity.
to, "the World", as above, in 1 John 2:15, it looks ridiculous.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No he didn\t. John 18:20 You have quite the imagination.
Once again the questioner asked about Christ's teachings, and Jesus said He had spoken openly to the world, indicating His teachings were well known. Thus the "world" refers to the human society that had heard Him teach. Thus crowds of Jews and Gentiles. Remember Jesus was sent to be a light to bring revelation to the Gentiles.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Once again the questioner asked about Christ's teachings, and Jesus said He had spoken openly to the world, indicating His teachings were well known. Thus the "world" refers to the human society that had heard Him teach. Thus crowds of Jews and Gentiles. Remember Jesus was sent to be a light to bring revelation to the Gentiles.

Instead of just taking the narrative for what it is you must shoehorn your Vanology into it. Neither John nor Jesus was referring to 'all humanity' with kosmos. It was the Jewish arrangement of that day and age, not every human being that is, ever was, or ever will be.

20 Jesus answered him, I have spoken openly to the world; I ever taught in synagogues, and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and in secret spake I nothing.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 10

24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15

...reiterated by Paul:

8 For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers, Ro 15

Gill:
"...“I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel; as a priest, or as a Saviour and Redeemer, he was sent to make satisfaction and atonement for the sins of all God's elect, and to obtain eternal redemption and salvation for all of them, whether Jews or Gentiles; but as a prophet, in the discharge of his own personal ministry, he was sent by his Father only to the Jews; he was the "minister of the circumcision", Romans 15:8 that is, a minister to the circumcised Jews…..”
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Instead of just taking the narrative for what it is you must shoehorn your Vanology into it. Neither John nor Jesus was referring to 'all humanity' with kosmos. It was the Jewish arrangement of that day and age, not every human being that is, ever was, or ever will be.

20 Jesus answered him, I have spoken openly to the world; I ever taught in synagogues, and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and in secret spake I nothing.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 10

24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15

...reiterated by Paul:

8 For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers, Ro 15

Gill:
"...“I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel; as a priest, or as a Saviour and Redeemer, he was sent to make satisfaction and atonement for the sins of all God's elect, and to obtain eternal redemption and salvation for all of them, whether Jews or Gentiles; but as a prophet, in the discharge of his own personal ministry, he was sent by his Father only to the Jews; he was the "minister of the circumcision", Romans 15:8 that is, a minister to the circumcised Jews…..”

The "Falselogy" advocates deny obvious truth. If Jesus came to the Jews first, but then to the Gentiles, they claim the "world" meant Jews, here, elect their, and non-elect somewhere else in order to pour their false doctrine into the text. Shameful.

However, the "world" primarily refers to the human society that had heard Him teach. Thus crowds of Jews and Gentiles. Remember Jesus was sent to be a light to bring revelation to the Gentiles.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
King James Bible
"For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."

He didn't Come to Save everyone. He didn't even Pray for everyone. You know that.
Yet another false implication posted without remorse.
Did anyone say Jesus came "to save everybody?" Nope. Yet this poster implied the falsehood.

Jesus came to provide the means of reconciliation for all mankind, those to be saved and those never to be saved. 2 Peter 2:1.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Yet another false implication posted without remorse.
Did anyone say Jesus came "to save everybody?" Nope. Yet this poster implied the falsehood.

Jesus came to provide the means of reconciliation for all mankind, those to be saved and those never to be saved. 2 Peter 2:1.

2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Thanks for supporting my my biblical view.
 
Top