A Prayer To The Blessed Virgin...

[Carolyn Dee]

"...Oh, most beautiful flower of Mt. Carmel, Fruitful vine, Splendor of Heaven, blessed Mother of the Son of God, Immaculate Virgin, assist me in this my necessity. Oh Star of the sea..."

...ok, ok, this is as far as I can go without losing my composure!!

Has this "prayer" ever been discussed/ridiculed in this forum?? This "prayer" usually ends (or starts) with this: NEVER KNOWN TO FAIL. That's what I want to know...what does not fail??! Are the Catholics telling me if I pray for the ability to bankrupt my local casino, I'm gonna be able to buy the Vatican??? (And TITHE on it?? Oh, my preacher would love that)

Anyway, let me post this and allow comments. Thank you.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Which blessed virgin are we praying to?

 

[tragic_pizza]

"This "prayer" usually ends (or starts) with this: NEVER KNOWN TO FAIL."

Hmmm. Most prayers start with, "Oh, Lord," or some derivative thereof. Never heard of wone starting with NEVER KNOWN TO FAIL...

 

[Carolyn Dee]

Oh yes, this one certainly states "Never known to fail." A Catholic told me that it means these prayers always heard by Mother Mary "without fail." Hmph, yeah right.

Would anyone like the complete prayer so you can see for yourselves how much it robs God of the attention and glory rightfully due Him?

 

[tamborine lady]

No thanks CD, just the part about "splender of heaven" gets my stomach turning!

My splender of heaven is God and Jesus!!

Never could figure out why they pray to someone besides Jesus. 'Course if they read the Word, they would know better!!

Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Carolyn Dee:
Has this "prayer" ever been discussed/ridiculed in this forum??

Discussed? Dunno. Ridiculed? Ridicle of anything Catholic is practically mandatory, to the point where, if you say anything that's not negative about the RCC, you open yourself up to ridicule as well. That's why I choose to stay shy of these types of discussions as a whole. Healthy discussion is fine, but the amount of unchristian play yard teasing that occurs is so abundant that it stifles most healthy discussion.

 

[Carolyn Dee]

JOHNV Good points. I was looking for comments on the "never known to fail" part. I'm not sure if I can assume it means that this prayer is heard without fail or if it answered without fail.

In the meantime, it is good to guard against unbiblical practices and doctrines.

 

[Charles Meadows]

"Never known to fail" is often appended to Novena prayers. A novena is a special prayer, requesting that something be done. The prayer is typically prayed 9 times a day for 9 days (thus the name "novena"). There are many novena prayers, to Mary, to saints (St Jude in particular), to the Holy Spirit. These prayers are offered up in times of need when a particular favor or action is requested. They are often called something like Novena to St Jude (never known to fail).

This is on of the parts of catholicism I DID NOT LIKE!

 

[tragic_pizza]

My Pontiac has never been known to fail. Had it for two years, too.

 

[Ray Berrian]

How does I Timothy 2:5 fit into Roman Catholic theology? 'For there is ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, {humans} the man Christ Jesus.'

Catholics not only pray through/to 'our lady,' but they pray to elevated saints like Padre Pio.
We have a shrine for pastor Pio in Bally, Pennsylvania. The pope blessed the plans for this shrine which has invested several millions of dollars, in memory of this priest from Italy who died in 1986. The former bishop allowed priests to give masses there, but the new bishop over this area now forbids priests to offer masses there. The lady who started this local shrine has lawyers to change the present position of the bishop located in Allentown. This Thursday there will be a ribbon cutting event with only prayers offered. All priests are forbidden to minister
a mass at this new chapel/shrine.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Catholics would argue that they aren't asking Mary, Pio, et al to mediate on their behalf, per se, just to pray for them in the same way you or I would ask one another for prayer.

 

[BobRyan]

The would also argue that she is "CO mediatrix with Christ".

They would argue she is "co-redemptrix" with Christ.

They would argue that she is the "all powerful queen of heaven" -- at whose command even God obeys.

And they (at least in the form of some popes) would argue that they are offering worship and praise "At her altars".

But some people are ok with that.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Charles Meadows]

You're exaggerating some Bob. Co-redemptrix does not make Mary equal to Christ in her role - more of an assistant. I still however am repulsed by it.

 

[tragic_pizza]

I wonder, though, if that is the view of the bishops/leadership. or simply of some Catholics?

After all, do the views of all Southern Baptist members absolutely reflect the leadership of the SBC?

 

[Ray Berrian]

Correction. I had stated that Padre Pio died in 1986; actually he passed on September 23. 1968. He was the only priest who had the stigmata, the five wounds of our Lord's body, in his body. They appeared there on September 20, 1918. There were over 100,000 mourners at his funeral. I expect well under 100,000 at my going into the Presence of the Lord.

 

[Ray Berrian]

'The would also argue that she is "CO mediatrix with Christ".

They would argue she is "co-redemptrix" with Christ.

They would argue that she is the "all powerful queen of heaven" -- at
whose command even God obeys.

And they (at least in the form of some popes) would argue that they
are offering worship and praise "At her altars".

But some people are ok with that.

Bob, I agree with your solid stance against Mary being a Co-Redeemer with Christ. In my theology classes, we heard and read about the Co-Redemptrix of Mary. Jesus is our only
Redeemer and Savior. [I Timothy 2:5] {One Mediator}

I do respect the fact that Mary was a virgin before the birth of our Lord and that we are grateful for the gift of Christ for the sins of the whole world.

Berrian, Th.D.

 

[BobRyan]

Ray,

Very true. The abuses that Catholicism creates and promotes in the form of mariolotry should not be taken as an argument against giving Mary the respect she is due as a Christian and as the Mother of Jesus.

However, just as Joseph is not the "spanker of God" nor the "corrector of God" nor the "instructor of God" -- neither is Mary "the Mother of God".

It is instructive that James is never called the "Brother of God" nor Mary "the Mother of God" in all of scripture. (Much less the "Queen of Heaven").

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Ray Berrian]

Bob,

'Very true. The abuses that Catholicism creates and promotes in the
form of mariolotry should not be taken as an argument against giving
Mary the respect she is due as a Christian and as the Mother of Jesus.

However, just as Joseph is not the "spanker of God" nor the "corrector
of God" nor the "instructor of God" -- neither is Mary "the Mother of
God".

'In your above paragraphs I also agree. Some Catholics do believe that Mary is Divine in the sense that we know and believe that Jesus is God. Mary got to Heaven the same way that my Godly mother went to Heaven. My mother was a child of God and at her death passed into the Presence of the Lord, while her body remained here on the earth. The same is true of Mary-the one who we have read from Isaiah as being the virgin. The Assumption of Mary {the idea that she ascended into Heaven bypassing physical death}is a falsehood-a misidentification. I realize you know all this but I am saying this for the other readers.'

It is instructive that James is never called the "Brother of God" nor
Mary "the Mother of God" in all of scripture. (Much less the "Queen of
Heaven").

'In most Roman Catholic churches Mary is elevated above that of Jesus our Lord. Notice their bulletin boards in front of their churches. They are usually named after their elevated saints or the person of Mary. Having canonized saints would be bad enough, but they believe that they mediate for those on earth-namely Christians. It's almost like the Lord is too swamped with prayers and needs them to handle the work load.

The largest R.C. church in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania is named St. Ann's Church. It is my understanding that the believe Ann was the mother of the virgin Mary. It might be possible that some kind of record has been kept since the first century, but the Bible never speaks about a person named Ann.'

 

[Janosik]

Bob,

how about Matthew 2:13 "And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him."

The angel of the Lord calls her 'his mother'. Should I trust the Bible or you?

 

[Janosik]

Bob,

do you agree that Jesus is God? Mary is mother of Jesus. Here is an example where Jesus did what she asked him to do.

John 2:1-5
"1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it."

What I want to say is that His flesh had her DNA

and it's very special.