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A Pressing Question

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by KenH, Aug 15, 2022.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    A PRESSING QUESTION

    Matthew 7
    21. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    These are some of the most somber verses that I find in scripture. This is the final judgement.

    In these three short verses we see the "cream of the crop" of humanity. Here is a vast multitude of imminently religious souls, who have dedicated their efforts, as well as their lives to religious service and endeavors. These are good neighbors, good fathers and mothers, good employees and good friends. They are highly regarded by their fellow man as honest, trustworthy, hardworking, "Christians". Yes "Christians", for everything they claim to have done, was done in the name of Christ. (vs. 22)

    We see this multitude, with one voice, calling upon Christ himself to testify to the things done in his name. The masses are so certain of the value of their service, that they approach the LORD himself unashamedly and inquire of him to testify on their behalf.

    THE ENTIRETY OF THIS MULTITUDE SEE THEIR "CHRISTIAN" SERVICE AS MERITORIOUS.

    Considering the gravity of these few verses, a most pressing question must therefore be asked by those religious folks, looking to their works for assurance.

    HOW IS MY PASTOR NOT TRAINING, TEACHING, ENCOURAGING AND ADMONISHING OUR CONGREGATION TO ARRIVE AT THIS VERY JUDGEMENT?

    This is a somber question that begs an answer. This is a real, future event, where preachers, teachers and some of the sweetest people you know will be found naked before their LORD. They believed their works, done in Christ's name, to be meritorious, but they were, each and every one, dead wrong.

    I have been a Sunday school teacher, song director, mission coordinator and minister in a religious organization that discipled toward this very end. Obedience was paramount and those works were my assurance and evidence of salvation. My focus was on the creature and not Christ. I now, by the grace of God, count all these things as dung.

    The assurance for the child of God is never found within, but without. When our best work is compared to the glorious holiness of Christ's perfections, our works can only be seen as dung.

    The scriptures are full to overflowing with proof texts that tell us there is none good, yet preachers insist on preaching personal holiness that they insist is meritorious before God. They assert that this is the Holy Spirit working in us, but Scripture states in John 16:13-14 that the Spirit will not speak of himself, but will glorify Christ.

    The glorious truth of the gospel is that Christ established a righteousness that is imputed to every soul he represented, personally. They stand as the very righteousness of God, in Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:21) He met every condition that God's just law required. This judgement is not their judgement, for they were judged in Christ, at the cross. Every sin that I would ever commit was charged to him and he fully and finally satisfied that charge at Calvary. I stand at peace with God, because by his grace I rest in the finished work of Christ alone and have absolutely no confidence in this flesh.

    Christ's righteousness is the only true righteousness that has ever existed and is the only ground of acceptance for any sinner before God. The child of God presently rests in Christ, for he is accepted in the Beloved.

    Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift!

    John 6
    28. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    29. Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    - posted by my friend and brother in Christ, Kenny Dyess, on his Facebook page
     
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Out of context.
     
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    It is never out of context to thank God for saving His elect through the perfect righteousness of Christ when dealing with Biblical matters. The Bible is all about Christ and the great salvation that He accomplished for His sheep, from Genesis through Revelation.
     
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What is it?
     
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I would suggest that you use an online Bible or a Bible app and do a search for "will of God". I am not going to try to list all of the results of such a search here.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The context of "Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift," happens to be 2 Corinthians 9:15. This I am persuaded is about ". . . for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men . . . ." The gospel of Christ is a gift, but not by any means unspeakable.
    1 Corinthians 15:1-4, ". . . the gospel . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . "
     
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "that exceeding grace of God which was so eminently, largely, and freely bestowed on the Corinthians in their effectual calling; or, as some think, Christ himself, who is to be sure "the unspeakable gift" of God; who, though his Son, his own Son, his only begotten Son, the Son of his love, his Son and heir, yet he gave him to be a covenant to the people, the head of his church, the Saviour of sinners, and to be a sacrifice in their room and stead: none can tell how great this gift is, which is so suitable and seasonable, so large and comprehensive, nor declare the love both of the Father and the Son, expressed in it. Thankful we should be for it; and our thankfulness should be shown by highly prizing and valuing this gift; by laying the whole stress of our salvation on Christ; by ascribing all the glory of it to him; by giving up ourselves to him, and to his interest; by walking worthy of him in all well pleasing, and by communicating to the support of his cause, and the supply of his poor ministers and members. And thus the apostle tacitly suggests one of the strongest arguments that can be used, to stir up the saints to generosity and liberality, taken from the wonderful grace of God in the gift of his Son; for if he of his free grace, and unmerited love, has given his Son to, and for his people, and with him all things freely, both the riches of grace and glory, then they ought freely and bountifully to communicate temporal good things to the poor members of Christ, for whom God and Christ have an equal love, as for themselves."

    - from John Gill's Bible commentary on 2 Corinthians 9:15
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In other words you really do no know.
    Matthew 7:22, ". . . have we not . . . " claiming works.
     
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Here we see in both Kenny Dyess's words and the words of John Gill, wonderful praise and magnifying words towards Christ and what He has done for His people and you seem to want to drag it all back down to what mere humans are supposed to be doing or some such, if I can make sense out of what you have written. Maybe if you would spend time contemplating how great Christ is and what wonderful and marvelous things He has done, you wouldn't be so creature-centered in your thoughts on theology.
     
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  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Is totally wrong. Romans 6:23, ". . . the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, . . ." is by no means God's unspeakable gift in 2 Corinthians 9:15.
     
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Apparently, you really think so little of Christ and the great things that He has done for His people.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    To claim anything to be unspeakable and then to proclaim what it is makes a lie to claim what is to be unspeakable. To make a fallacy out of what it is.

    Illogical nonsense. What the gospel of Christ is not. The gift of God to proclaim. I dare say I think more of the gospel of Christ than you do.

    Romans 1:16, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."

    1 Corinthians 15:1-4, ". . . the gospel . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . "

    1 John 5:1, ". . . Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . ."


    You have:
    Salvation is of the Lord - Jonah 2:9
    for,
    Salvation is of the LORD - Jonah 2:9
     
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. 2 Corinthians 1:20
     
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  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Ken did you not notice that

    1] that we might work the works of God?
    That G2443 CONJ ἐργαζώμεθα We May Work G2038 V-PNS-1P τὰ The G3588 T-APN ἔργα Works G2041 N-APN τοῦ G3588 T-GSM θεοῦ Of God? G2316 N-GSM

    V-PNS-1P
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Tense: Present G5774
    Voice: middle or passive depoNent G5790
    Mood: Subjunctive G5792
    Person: First [we]
    Number: Plural

    G5774
    Tense-Present
    The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. The action is Progressive (Continuous)


    G5790
    Voice-Middle or Passive Deponent
    The middle or passive deponent forms
    in almost all cases are translated as being in the active voice.

    "Active"
    The active voice represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action.

    G5792
    Mood-Subjunctive
    The subjunctive mood is
    the mood of possibility and potentiality.

    2] that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
    That G2443 CONJ πιστεύσητε Ye Should Believe G4100 V-AAS-2P εἰς On G1519 PREP ὃν Him Whom G3739 R-ASM ἀπέστειλεν Sent G649 V-AAI-3S ἐκεῖνος He. G1565 D-NSM

    V-AAS-2P
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Tense: Aorist G5777

    Voice: Active G5784
    Mood: Subjunctive G5792
    Person: Second [you*]
    Number: Plural


    G5777
    Tense-Aorist
    The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action


    G5784
    Voice-Active
    The active voice represents
    the subject as the doer or performer of the action.

    G5792
    Mood-Subjunctive
    The subjunctive mood is
    the mood of possibility and potentiality.

    The thing that you should notice is that in both cases it was the person that was the subject that did the action.
    When they asked what they could do and when they were told what they should do, both were in the subjective mood, the mood of possibility, both were conditional.

    The men asked "what must we do" and the men were told "to believe in the one he has sent" The men had a choice placed before them.

     
  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "6.28 Then said they unto him,.... Understanding by what he said, that they must labour and work, though not for perishing food, yet for durable food; and as they imagined, in order to obtain eternal life by working:

    what shall we do that we might work the works of God? Such as are agreeable to his will, are acceptable to him, and well pleasing in his sight: they seem to intimate, as if they desired to know whether there were any other works of this kind, than what Moses had directed them to, or than they had done; and if there were, they suggest they would gladly do them; for this was the general cast and complexion of this people; they were seeking for righteousness, and life not by faith, but, as it were, by the works of the law.

    6.29 Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God,.... The main and principal one, and which is well pleasing in his sight; and without which it is impossible to please him; and without which no work whatever is a good work; and this is of the operation of God, which he himself works in men; it is not of themselves, it is the pure gift of God:

    that ye believe on him whom he hath sent; there are other works which are well pleasing to God, when rightly performed, but faith is the chief work, and others are only acceptable when done in the faith of Christ. This, as a principle, is purely God's work; as it is an act, or as it is exercised under the influence of divine grace, it is man's act: "that ye believe"; the object of it is Christ, as sent by the Father, as the Mediator between God and men, as appointed by him to be the Saviour and Redeemer; and believing in Christ, is believing in God that sent him. The Jews reduce all the six hundred and thirteen precepts of the law, for so many they say there are, to this one, "the just shall live by his faith", Habakkuk 2:4."

    - John Gill's Bible commentary on John 6:28-29
     
  16. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Ken did you not notice that it is the person that has to do it, God does not do it for them. God did not ask, "what shall we do" and God did not "believe in Him whom He sent" for them.

    Man has to do those things and do them freely or he is not them doing them but God is and then you have to ask why would Christ even bother say the things He did?
     
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Somehow Jesus said "this is the work of God" and you turn it, based on your man-ology, into Jesus saying, "this is the work of man".

    Look, man, we have been in verbal warfare at each other more than enough on this board recently; just how many more times do you want to be slammed down onto the mat?
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Ken is ti sad that you seem to have such a poor grasp of the English language. The more you comment the more evident it becomes.

    Since you will not trust what the English says then perhaps you should trust what the Greek says. Read through post # 14 and perhaps some light will shine into that dark corner that you hide in called Calvinism.

    Joh_6:28. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    “What is the noblest work that we can do? What is that work which will please God most?”
    Joh_6:29. Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
    The grandest work that any man can do is to believe on the Saviour whom God has sent. There are some who despise faith, but Christ was not of that number. He honoured it exceedingly when he said, in effect “This is the Godlike work, the work which is nearest to God’s heart, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.’” Dear friend, art thou struggling after that which is high and noble? Wouldst thou do the best day’s work that was ever done in any mortal life? Thou run not to this or that invention of thine own, but be content to believe on him whom God hath sent. This is the first, the highest, the noblest work, the work which gives to God the greatest pleasure. C.H. Spurgeon
     
    #18 Silverhair, Aug 16, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a Greek scholar. And I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
     
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Since you are not a Greek scholar but you seem to be able to read and understand some English. Use the Blue Letter Bible to check out the Greek. Perhaps then you can let some light shine into that dark corner you hide in.
     
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