A Calvinist told me once.....
“God is always taking the first step, and is NEVER waiting for us to act.”
i.e. (He forces salvation etc, on us, and never waits for us to make the decision to trust Christ as our Savior.)
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My question has to do with.......
Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
Here, the Lord is waiting, for a response!
A question for a Calvinist
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by stilllearning, Aug 19, 2008.
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IMHO, it is wise to be aware of two tendencies in discussions of Theology:
1. Taking a Biblical doctrine and pressing it to an unbiblical extreme, and
2. Seeking to disprove an opponent's position by pressing it to absurdity.
I am a Calvinist, but I'm not sure I would make a statement similar to what your friend has. I think I understand the spirit in which your friend made that statement, and I can see where he's coming from , but it seems quite clear to me that both God's sovereignty and man's responsibility are clearly presented in Scripture.
Did your friend actually say that "He forces salvation etc, on us," or is that just the way you interpreted what he said?
I know that Rev. 3:20 is often used in Gospel appeals, but my understanding of that verse, in its context, is that Jesus is actually knocking on the door of the church at Laodicea - a spiritually impoverished church - seeking to come in to those who "hear His voice." However, direct appeals to man's will should not be hard to find in the New Testament. -
I don't know which one his friend is but I to was wondering if that is what his friend said (or believes - thus he could say what the his meaning was) or was this his interpretation of what his friend stated?
If the latter I was encourage him to go back to his friend and ask specifically what he meant. -
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In context it is speaking to this particular church in which Christ was now on the outside knocking and asking for those who would to allow him back in. However, the spiritual principle is often times used by many in witnessing to the lost or as an illistration to them.
With scripture even the Calvinist agree that no man is saved unless he believes or what is refered to as man's responsiblity. Even though it is God alone that saves man, it is man who must believe or else there is no salvation. -
Allan,
It seems to me your addressing or expressing your concern with hyper-calvinsim. I think Phil Johnson's article on it is good. http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm -
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Hi RustySword
Nice to hear from you.
You said......
It doesn’t sound like, you accept “Irresistible Grace”.
Neither do I. -
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Actually, the Lord is "standing" and "knocking."
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Romans 3:11
There is none who understands;
There is NONE who SEEKS after God.
Think about it if we aren't seeking, then He isn't waiting.. Right?
as for you question
one commentary says ... The context demands that Christ was seeking to enter this church that bore His name but lacked a single true believer. This poignant letter was his knocking. If one member would recognize his spiritual bankruptcy and respond in saving faith, He would enter the church...
Reformer -
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If it isn't about salvation and this assembly of non-believers calling themselves the/a church and Christ is standing at the door knocking to be 'let in', then please advise what it means.
If they aren't saved, and Christ is coming to them standing at the door knocking to be let in, and gives a call to anyone who will open up that He will then come in and become intimate with him (something that is not yet happened toward these individuals) - exactly how is this not about salvation or at the very least an allusion toward it?
It is a call to all those who call themselves a church (which is was a true church before but apparently spiralled into spiritual bankruptcy - majority if not all who now made it up were unsaved. Christ was outside the church and calling to be allowed to come in - not back in. A call for intimacy between Him and anyone who would open/answer the door/call.
I believe it is exactly about salvation and more importantly the dangers of assuming that just because you are apart of a church group makes one saved.
More can be given here as well like sound doctrinal teaching wasn't continued so Christ has to personally address the whole church in general as though it was unsaved and needed to come to Him that they might actaully become a true Church of Him. ect... -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
One who has the Holy Ghost living in them would not need for Christ to "knock' and wait outside the door to come in.
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The salvation message to each person is in the message to the whole church. :) -
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AMEN BROTHER :thumbs:
some people can't figgure out Rom 3:11 "There is none who seeks after God."
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