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A question for Christians

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TexasSky, Sep 27, 2005.

  1. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    Johnv, [​IMG]

    Some people get to the church but won't let the church get to them.

    Some Christians do not realize that we are the only Bible that some unsaved people read.

    2 Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
    2 Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
     
  2. OCC

    OCC Guest

    I didn't read all the posts so forgive me if I repeat anyone...but...the very fact that they are complaining about the Christians means they feel they are BETTER then the Christians, therefore they are being hypocrites.
     
  3. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Just some verses that come to mind:

    Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
    7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

    1 Corinthians 10:24 32 Give none offence [NKJV: no offense], neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

    2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
    2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
    3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
    4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
    5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
    6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
    7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
    8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
    9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
    10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

    James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

    1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
    10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

    Matthew 19:21 - Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

    Luke 6:20 - And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

    Luke 14:13 - But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:

    1 Corinthians 13:3 - And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

    15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    1 Corinthians 2:14-16
     
  5. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    I agree with most of you.
    I think that Christians often fail to love as Christ commanded us to love, and that this hurts the ministry of Christ.
    I think that sometimes people claim to be Christian who are not.
    I think a lot of good is done by Christians that is not credited to Christians.

    To those who reacted with the attitude that the unbelievers are using this to justify things - if we, as Christians, lived as Christ told us TO live, they could not justify it, and I see words in the word that indicate we should live our lives in such a way that they CANNOT justify rejection of Christ by pointing at us. So, if they ARE using OUR behavior to reject Christ, ~WE~ must repent. WE know better. WE have pledged to follow Christ, and Christ told us to love our enemies, to love those that hate us, to feed the poor, to heal the sick, to care for the widows and orphans, to give clothing to those who needed it, to visit those in prisons, and to NOT be a stumbling block that causes others to reject Christ.
     
  6. OCC

    OCC Guest

    "To those who reacted with the attitude that the unbelievers are using this to justify things - if we, as Christians, lived as Christ told us TO live, they could not justify it, and I see words in the word that indicate we should live our lives in such a way that they CANNOT justify rejection of Christ by pointing at us. So, if they ARE using OUR behavior to reject Christ, ~WE~ must repent. WE know better. WE have pledged to follow Christ, and Christ told us to love our enemies, to love those that hate us, to feed the poor, to heal the sick, to care for the widows and orphans, to give clothing to those who needed it, to visit those in prisons, and to NOT be a stumbling block that causes others to reject Christ."

    But that can't be right...I'm a conservative now and I don't care about them. They are responsible for themselves...
     
  7. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Here is the answer I gave the people.

    "I am very sorry that you have had experiences with Christians, or perhaps with people who pretended to be Christian, that left you feeling that we talk love and live hate. That is not what the bible teaches, that is not what Christ teaches. Please understand though, Christians are not "Christ-like" beings who have left our humanity behind. We are human beings who are learning, daily, from Christ, and who are striving to become more like He would like us to be. We screw up, and some times we just give up. It really is easier to hate or to justify ignoring pain or to turn your back than it is to love unconditionally. Don't hate Christ because Christians make mistakes. Look at what Christ wants Christians to be, look at who He is, and what He did and the example He sat for us. Look at how he WANTS a Christian to be, and when you see a Christian who fails to love like Christ said to love, don't hate Christ for it. Understand that the Christian still has a lot of growing to do. Don't hate all Christians for the mistakes Christians make, but most of all, don't hate Christ because Christians don't ACT like Chrisitans."
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I believe Paul was stating pretty clearly that the opinions of the lost about the redeemed are irrellevant since they are wholly carnal, and do not have the mind of Christ. The opinion of fellow believers, however, is relevant since we have the mind of Christ. Therefore, we judge all things, but should not submit to the judgements of carnal, natural, lost humans. I find it counterproductive for us, as Christians, to point to the opinions of the lost for the purpose of shaping the way we should live as Christians. We should, instead, lean on the instruction of the Word of God and fellow believers, who have the mind of Christ.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    TS,

    They hate Christ because they are totally depraved and unregenerate. They hate Christians because we belong to Christ. Only the power of God working in them can change that.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I don't need the lost to tell me that some of the meanist, rudest and proudest folks I know are Christians. They are also constant reminders of my own sinfulness to keep my pride in check.
     
  11. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    King James,

    Maybe those who actually think that way should look at the book of James where God's word tells us that if we fail to love, we have broken ALL of God's law.

    That section of God's word is a real wakeup call. I don't remember enough of my theology classes to be certain, but I believe this probably where Baptists get the concept that the only sin that is greater than other sins is rejection of Christ. James teaches that if you break a commandment, you've violated the WHOLE law, not just that one piece of it. He teaches that the law is a "whole" thing. You either "please God" or "you fail to please God." And then he expands that to say, if you fail to love - you've already broken the most important commandment of God. The one that Christ set up as first.

    Now, I won't get into debates over whether or not this is talking about embracing certain sin. I don't think love embraces sin or pretends to condone sin. How can you love someone while you watch them march into hell without even trying to warn them?

    I do think that many, many, many people are going to be shocked on judgment day when Christ says they are condemnded because they refused Him when he needed food or water or a visit in prision.
     
  12. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Oh, one more thing - Rachel - You asked what brought it on.

    They were discussing the reactions of some self-professing Christians to Katrina. The "they deserved to die," and "they don't deserve help" attitudes, and comparing that attitude to people who clearly don't even claim to be Christian who were willing to help.

    And yes, I did take the time to point out that the first group into the area was the SBC, and that as far as I know the SBC is STILL in the area, I referred them to Samaritan's Purse's work, to the NAMB work, to churches in the regions.

    But they pointed to individual Christians who were speaking of resenting being asked to help the victims either by their government or their churches, who talked of the victims as if they were all worthless, or if they were all criminals.

    BTW - I realized this morning as I watched one of the news program that features a different victim of Katrina every day - not a single one of the people they feature was unemployed before Katrina hit. So this idea that the poor people of New Orleans didn't want to work certainly isn't proving true in the media coverage.
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    TS,

    Do you believe in a works salvation? Do you believe that one can lose their salvation if they fail to help the needy?

    Thanks,

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. OCC

    OCC Guest

    Good points TexasSky...totally agree with you.
     
  15. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Because they are not properly discipled and churched.
     
  16. OCC

    OCC Guest

    Discipled I understand, but what does "churched" mean?
     
  17. buckster75

    buckster75 Member

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    churched is refering to what Paul spoke of as treating the sinner who claims to be a brother or sister as a pagen. in other words not allowing them the fellowship of the church.
     
  18. buckster75

    buckster75 Member

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    it is actually a part of church discipline.
     
  19. OCC

    OCC Guest

    Oh ok. Thanks.
     
  20. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Joseph,

    No, I don't believe in a works salvation, and think that given my statements you are right to ask the question. Thank you for asking.

    What I believe is that people who do believe in Christ, and who are Christians, will feel the pull to serve Him as He taught us to serve, and to love as He taught us to love.

    In the passages which I referred to, Christ says that on the judgment day people will cry out and say, "Lord, Lord, I preached in your name," and He will say, "I knew you not."

    There are people in this world who THINK they are Christians who never made a personal committment to Christ. Maybe they grew up in a church, maybe they quoted the bible right and left, maybe they even did the do's, or didn't do the don'ts. They just never took the time to give their life to Christ. On judgment day, they'll be shocked.

    I truly do not believe you can be right with the Lord Jesus Christ and NOT care about others.
     
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