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A US State can establish its own State religion

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Salty, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    Not that I think we should have a State church but such would not "infringe any rights" that are "guaranteed" at the federal level. That part of the Constitution was about specific prohibitions against Congress in particular - not rights. The States that had State churches at the time and for decades more made changes to their own Constitution on this subject because they wanted to.
     
    #21 Dragoon68, Feb 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2009
  2. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Yeah....good luck with that! :laugh:

    SCOTUS has upheld explicitly that the establishment clause is applicable to state governments because of the 14th. Look at Everson v. Board of Education and Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet.
     
    #22 Magnetic Poles, Feb 7, 2009
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  3. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    With what?
     
  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    And from post # 5 by MP "Doesn't have to. The 14th Amendment makes the states subject to the federal constitution. They may not infringe any rights at the state level that are guaranteed at the federal level. "

    *************************************
    Since 21 Jun 1788, all States or Commonwealths have been subject to the Federal Constitution.

    Currently the Federal govt is very good at coercing people. If you are anti-war, your taxes go for war, if you are anti-abortion, you $ go abortion, if you are pro-choice, the govt requires you to wear a seat belt...

    BTW, there is no such doctrine as the so-called "establishment clause" plain and simple!
    What the Constitution meant was that the govt was to stay out of the affairs of the church.

    Remember, part of our Baptist polity would prohibit us from wanting to establish a State or Commonwealth religion
     
  5. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Then the government was wrong in sending troops to Utah to prevent Utah citizens from establishing an LDS government?
     
  6. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Exactly!

    Connecticut, Georgia, New Hampshire and South Carolina all had an official state Church at the time of the adoption of the US Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

    [Edited to add]

    Also, the LDS Church was the de facto, if not de jure, state Church of Utah, when admitted to the US.

    BTW, Idaho also had an official Church for 24 years, from 1957-1981. Was Presbyterian, I believe.

    http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=c000388

    And Nevada even had a official Bible for most of 40 years.

    http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=B000436

    ;)

    Ed
     
    #26 EdSutton, Apr 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2009
  7. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Not according to any valid authority, such as ... oh ... say the SCOTUS. This is a talking point with no backing.

    Also, there is indeed an establishment clause AND a free exercise clause. One gives us freedom from coercive religion, the other gives us freedom of choice in religion.
     
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    and at one time the SCOTUS also upheld fugitive slave laws - , they at one time upheld separte but equal...
    The Court can and does (though not often) change opinion
     
  9. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    True, but it doesn't negate what is current, merely because you disagree.
     
  10. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >Also, the LDS Church was the de facto, if not de jure, state Church of Utah, when admitted to the US.

    Immaterial. Some southern states have de facto Baptist governments right now. And Cal has a de facto agnostic government.
     
  11. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Source, please?
     
  12. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    "The Book of Billwald: A collection of stupid, non-factual statements"
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    You are right on, Brother Matt. :thumbsup:
     
  14. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    I don't care what any of you believe. Sloppy and inconsistent thinking irritates me. Now that I am old and fat and can't eat and drink what I want this is the only amusement left.
     
  15. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Allegations with no factual proof aren't sloppy and inconsistent?
     
  16. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    So, what you are saying is that you constantly irritate yourself?
     
  17. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe New Member

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    It would infringe upon the rights of American citizens that live in said state.

    Why would any state want to institute a state religion? The early people in this country wanted to get AWAY from state religion. And what would give Christians the right to force their beliefs on others through a state religion? Would you want another religious group to do the same to you?
     
  18. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe New Member

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    I'm inclined to believe until persuaded otherwise, that they also wanted the church to stay out of the government. The fact that they were breaking free from a country with a state church seems to indicate this.
     
  19. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Not entirely correct. The early folks wanted to get away form a state religion they (the early folks) disagreed with.

    Roger Williams was run out of Mass, because he disagreed with the Puritans.
    Va was the home for the Church of England ( Episcopalian) The Roman Catholics had Maryland. Did you know that "Nine of the thirteen colonies had official public religions."
     
  20. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe New Member

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    No, I didn't know that. Thanks. Doesn't that make them hypocrites then?
     
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