Every ARminian on this forum argues that "all men" in John 12:32 means "all men WITHOUT EXCEPTION" rather than "all men without distinction."
However, their interpetation can be proven wrong and very easily.
1. There is historical documented evidence in our own century where entirel civilizations have lived and died without ever hearing about Christ, the cross or the gospel.
a. The New Guinea head hunter tribes had never heard of the gospel, the cross or Christ from their father's and grandfathers until modern missionaries came to New Guinea and they were killed by them.
b. The American Indians were both pantheists and polytheists much like the Hindoo religion with one great or primary god and their fathers and grand fathers never heard of Christ, the gospel or the cross previous to missionaries coming to them in the 17th century.
2. There are "some" disciple given as examples of "some" who never were drawn by the Father in John 6:64-65 although they EXTERNALLY heard, was taught and learned the gospel by John the Baptist and Christ (Jn. 3:16; 36; Acts 1:21-22) and made it their PUBLIC profession proving that being drawn by the Father is not synonmous with EXTERNALLY hearing the gospel preached, taught or learning it.
3. Even though some may object and refuse to accept the fact of #2 above they cannot deny #1 above and that is sufficient to prove their intepretation of John 12:32 and the words "all men" to mean "all without exception" to be completely false.
Absolute Proof of ARminian error in Jn. 12:32
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by The Biblicist, Jan 22, 2014.
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I discount just about anything from those circles as really happening! -
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
It is the preaching of the cross that draws men to Jesus. The hardest heart often melts when one hears of Jesus's love and how he died on the cross to save us from our sins.
But no man can be drawn or believe on Jesus unless he hears the gospel.
Nevertheless, when men do hear the preaching of the cross they are drawn to Jesus.
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Unless the Holy Spirit were exerting an influence and drawing upon these Jews, it could not be said they were resisting the Holy Ghost.
But even if you were correct (you are not), people can resist your arguments. Likewise, though the drawing and arguments of the Holy Spirit be perfect, men have the ability to resist and reject them. This is shown over and over again in scripture.
What is not shown in scripture is this false view of yours. -
Those who do and keep on resisiting Him are the lost! -
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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YOU are the person afraid to be different. You parrot others constantly. I doubt you have had an original thought in your life.
I could show you dozens of scriptures that prove Original Sin is false doctrine, but you could not possibly understand because you have already made up your mind. You believe what others tell you mindlessly. -
Romans 10
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
(then Quote - Ps 19:1-4)
18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”
Paul quotes Ps 19 speaking of the voice of "nature".
Nobody doubts that "nature" reaches all mankind.
Romans 2
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?
27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
James 4
17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.
In fact God DOES "Draw ALL mankind" unto Him - John 12:32. Though the case for Calvinism would not be too happy about that.
in Christ,
Bob
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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In response to Aaron's link.
Correction: All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God - is true of the new born whose sinful nature is "short of the glory of God".
But God sent His Son "to be the Savior of the WORLD" 1 John 4 and as an "Atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" which covers the infant that is born with the sinful nature which falls short of the glory of God.
in Christ,
Bob -
ITS the elect of His, chosen by Him to be found in Christ! -
Were we innocent, and had our natures changed into sin natures when we first choice to sin then?
Were we all reconciled to God , and had to get lost due to willful sinning then?
was jesus ONLY sinless person who ever lived, ONLY one who kept the law as God intended?