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"Allegorical" and "Spiritual" Hermeneutics

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by John of Japan, Dec 14, 2017.

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  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I dropped you a line in a PM.

    God bless.
     
    #161 John of Japan, Dec 18, 2017
  2. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    I actually agree with the ignore thing. I wouldn't ignore you.
    I laugh at your posts sometimes, and cringe at the repetitiveness, but its entertaining, and actually strengthens my views.
     
    #162 prophecy70, Dec 18, 2017
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  3. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    This guy was Amillennial?

    I thought the "THE" in the greek was a clear indiction of literalness of the 1000 years. How can someone with such a knowledge of greek not see the clearness?

    Im confused.


     
    #163 prophecy70, Dec 18, 2017
  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    If one interprets with allegorical interpretation coming to the text, no matter how great a scholar one is, he will still end up amil or postmil. A. T. Robertson's greatness as a Greek scholar is uncontested, but he was not a theologian. His advanced grammar, A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research (1934, over 1200 pages) is a famous classic. But in his day, most SBC scholars interpreted allegorically, so he just followed along. But again, he was not a theologian, but a grammarian.

    I would love to have a discussion with him on the use of the article in Rev. 20. He would probably snow me under, but I like to think he would see my point.
     
    #164 John of Japan, Dec 18, 2017
  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Pre WWI, a greater number of classical theologians were schooled and taught A-Mill view and actually did think that the world would eventually be overrun with believers and the nations will turn to Christ to usher in a kingdom already conformed to His glory.

    Here is a regularly sung hymn that reflects that thinking: We've a Story to Tell to the Nations - HymnSite.com - United Methodist Hymnal #569

    A few things happened that brought greater focus upon the futility of the post and a-mill views. Not only the "war to end all wars" (WWI) but the great world wide depression, rise of Hitler, WWII, the atomic age, ...

    Clearly the teaching that the world will get better and better was not enlightened by the understanding of the modern age. Yet, some did (as Darby examples) have a certain understanding, but not the fullness of consistency that has been developed and is still being developed.

    But, the refrain:
    "For the darkness shall turn to dawning,
    and the dawning to noonday bright;
    and Christ's great kingdom shall come on earth,
    the kingdom of love and light." (from link, above)
    ​
    cannot be sung with any authority of Scripture backing.

    Modern days, (in my opinion) because of the overreach and some Hollywood presentations the other than pre-mill views have again pushed their way in to acceptability.
     
    #165 agedman, Dec 18, 2017
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  6. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    It would help Robycop's case if he would stop playing the old tape over and over again, and tell us what actual events are eschatological events, then we can discuss them. As it is he just lives up to his reputation as the board's comedian.
     
    #166 David Kent, Dec 18, 2017
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You certainly are. :(
     
    #167 TCassidy, Dec 18, 2017
  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    My grandfather was a Baptist pastor, graduate of SBTS and had A. T. Robertson as a teacher, mentor, and friend.

    I was far to full of self, too driven, too stupid to sit with my grandfather and listen to him as he would reflect upon his growth in Christ, and who the people were that influenced him.

    What a waste I was (am!) .
     
    #168 agedman, Dec 18, 2017
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Here is another. That great anthem to Post Millennialism, The Battle Hymn of the Republic.

    Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
    He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
    He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
    His truth is marching on.

    I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
    They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
    I can read His righteous sentence in the dim and flaring lamps:
    His day is marching on.

    I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
    "As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal";
    Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,
    Since God is marching on.

    He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
    He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat;
    Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! Be jubilant, my feet!
    Our God is marching on.

    In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
    With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.
    As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
    While God is marching on.

    (Chorus)
    Glory, glory, hallelujah!
    Glory, glory, hallelujah!
    Glory, glory, hallelujah!
    While God is marching on.
     
    #169 TCassidy, Dec 18, 2017
  10. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was speaking significantly or figuratively or symbolically when he said
    • John 1:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
    • 18Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
    • 19This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
     
    #170 David Kent, Dec 18, 2017
  11. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    How is that an A-Mill view and not a Post Mill view?
     
    #171 prophecy70, Dec 18, 2017
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    She stood over me as I studied, hairbrush in hand. :eek: [Actually, I cannot tell a lie; I looked it up :Redface ]
    I beg to differ. There is such a thing as a drop and there is such a thing as a bucket. If I talk about something being just a drop in the bucket,' I am comparing something small to something great, not making any sort of accurate comparison.
    13 fiples to the ganglof, and 8 gangloves (note the plural!) to wrachton. I though everybody knew that. ;)
     
    #172 Martin Marprelate, Dec 18, 2017
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  13. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I think you'll find that's Postmil. :Biggrin
     
    #173 Martin Marprelate, Dec 18, 2017
  14. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    But how could he arrive at that position if "The" is means a clear 1000 literal years in Greek.
    How could anyone interpret allegorical? Wouldn't the article by default make an allegorical interpretation wrong.
     
    #174 prophecy70, Dec 18, 2017
  15. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Only because you and John were insisting on the literalness of the article "The"
     
    #175 prophecy70, Dec 18, 2017
  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Both views have no literal 1000 year reign of Christ ruling with a rod of iron that nations of the world.
     
    #176 agedman, Dec 18, 2017
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    It is literally the article "the."
     
    #177 TCassidy, Dec 18, 2017
  18. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    the two views are clearly different though.
     
    #178 prophecy70, Dec 18, 2017
  19. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Yes, but does it have to imply a literal 1000 years?
     
    #179 prophecy70, Dec 18, 2017
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. Greek grammar makes it clear that he is talking about THE 1000 years, not just any 1000 years.

    Illustration: Sit in THE chair. That means to sit in a specific chair. Not just any chair. THE chair.

    If, on the other hand I say. Sit in a chair you are free to choose any chair you want to sit in.

    Got it now?
     
    #180 TCassidy, Dec 18, 2017
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