Any sources, my friend? I'd love to see them.
Thanks
Anti- drum beat/syncopation
Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by mamaforhim, Jan 29, 2008.
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I knew a man who died at the age of 94 who had smoked since the age of 16. -
Doesn't the burden of proof lie on the other end? Wasn't the OP questioning the supposed sinfulness of beats?
Where's the supposed proof? -
But what it looked like you were trying to do was say that hymnwriters commonly imitated the unseemly styles and mannerisms of the world in the music they chose, and that simply isn't true. I say it looked like that's what you tried to do because of your references to Luther and the Wesley's, who are commonly and erroneously reported to have helped themselves to the tunes of tavern songs. And that simply isn't true either.
More than that, you asserted your point in defense of rock music in the church, which, if your purpose wasn't to tout the afore-mentioned oft-repeated urban legend concerning Wesley, Luther and others, your post seems somewhat pointless.
But, judging from the indiscriminate use of the term "popular" in the post I quoted above, I'd say my first impression was correct, and you have yet to document your assertion. -
http://www.worldbook.com/wb/Students?content_spotlight/aamusic/aamusic
Is Worldbook lying?
Britannica makes the same link. http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9105870/rock-and-roll#667373.hook
Is Britannica lying?
Samuel A. Floyd, Jr. (an African American) in a book I've cited before* makes the same reference. Is Samuel A. Floyd a liar?
*The Power of Black Music -
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To say that the syncopated rhythms did not come from the African culture is to admit that one knows nothing of music history, esp. American music history. A GREAT book on this subject is Richard Crawford's An Introduction to America's Music W.W. Norton & Co. New York 2001 ISBN 0-393-97409. Crawford is not an extreme Fundamentalist White Racist Extremist, yet he traces the syncopated rhythms of the slaves of the South into the minstrel shows of the North, then to Ragtime, and eventually Rock 'n Roll. His last chapter is entitled 'Black Music and American Identity.'
But you don't need to read. Any music student or professor will fill you in on some of the details. -
Gold Dragon Well-Known Member
If you don't like certain styles of music because you think it is bad for your heart or it has black/African/secular origins, then feel free to avoid it.
The OP's request for scripture defending this position has obviously been ignored so all sides seem to agree that there is no scripture to defend this personal preference.
If you claim this is doctrine and cannot find scripture to defend it, then you probably shouldn't claim to be a sola-scriptura Christian. -
I'm not sure if I'm happy or disappointed that he didn't trot out "Hear That Black Snake Moan" again or that idiotic essay from that woman who's name escapes me. -
There's nothing inherently wrong with drums but if somebody has a conviction that they're wrong, they shouldn't listen to them.
Currently, I'm listening to Chip Taylor's album, "Unglorious Hallelujah" and the drummer on that album is carrying several songs with just a plastic bucket and a cardboard box. -
It adds so much to good solid christian praise and worship music when it has that wonderful syncopation in the rythmn section, or that good back beat poppin'.
Praise the Lord! \o/
Mike -
What about people clapping their hands with the music? Even when my old church sung hymns (and that was all they sung, and only from the redback), people would clap along with the music if it was an upbeat song (yes, there are some upbeat hymns... honest). If one is going to go out on this limb, surely to goodness this carnal activity must be stopped.
Oh, and toe-tapping! Straight from the brimstone pit itself, it must be... -
I'd guess that those that play classical music tend to be more economically and educationally advantaged.
Everyone has extra heart beats once in a while.
For the most part these arrhythmia are benign, not even noticed by you when you have them.
Although anything that would increase adrenaline might cause an increase in heart arrhythmia, be it loud and energetic music, exercise, caffeine intake, fright etc.
Some people live quite normally with every other heart beat being an arrhythmia
I guesss you could say they march to the beat of a different drummer.
Rob -
I'm uncertain why you would say loud music doesn't negatively impact the heart, unless you do not define heart stoppage or changed rhythm as a negative impact. It would seem to be obvious that low-frequency sound pulses, projected with enough volume, can both stop a heart (much like a baseball if it strikes the chest at the right moment in the heartbeat) and alter the heartbeat's speed and pattern. Heavy metal and rap, especially, are notorious for speeding up heart beats. Whether one wants to use this as ammunition against certain types of music is another issue.
As I said previously, imo the affects of certain chords and chord progressions on our emotions (and, I would argue, spirits) is a more serious issue. -
Heart stopage, yeah that would be a negative impact...but music doesn't do that... if it did then we'd have many dead musicians.
'Don't exactly know what you mean by changed rhythm... the speeding up or slowing down of a persons heart rate isn't changing the rhythm, it's merely changing the rate of the rhythm.
Things like deep breathing or a hot showers affect that.
[and you're not advocating that we all stop taking showers are you???]
Anyway a changing heart rate is not dangerous or bad.
As for changing rhythm, it's rare but it happens.
I've never heard any reports about it happening in relation to music.
Those that are prone to have it happen generally are unable to identify a precipitating event.
Music will not affect the heart in the same way a baseball hitting the chest would... whether it seems obvious to you or not.
Music, even the loud, obnoxious stuff can't stop (or start) a heart.
Rob -
I'm not even weighing in on the propriety of the styles debated, I just can't stand ignorant people speaking what they know not of. :BangHead: -
Any of the hymnwriters you mentioned would not use the music that you can hear played on juke boxes in bars or by disc jockeys in clubs. Using sensual music in church is a relatively new development. Can you find any hymns from the turn of the century that borrowed any Ragtime tunes, or gospel songs from the 30's that imitated the styles of Russ Columbo or Rudy Vallee? Any Andrews Sisters' style hymns?
(I'm not talking about secular performers who also sang gospel songs. I'm talking about music that was written for the church.)
It's not that contemporary (in the denotative meaning of the word) tunes can't be used, but you aren't limiting the definition of the term. By contemporary (or music of our time) you are also describing a style which would would have been rejected by the gospel song writers that you cited. -
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