:Roflmao
You're one to be speaking of logical conclusions!! :Laugh
So, describe this guidance. God guides, and God directs our paths. No one has denied that. I know what that means. But I want to hear your take. How does the Spirit guide, and how is the witness borne?
Don't just say Scripture, because the question will be, how do you know you're understanding of the Scripture is true?
Apostolic Uniqueness - total dependence on God
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, May 20, 2019.
Page 3 of 5
-
-
-
I believe that you were being honest when you rejected my comment and are now backtracking by claiming it was a rejection to what I supposedly meant.
So no. Ask one of your teachers for the doctrine they believe you should hold (perhaps Andy Stanley).
Until you are able to come clean about your absurd comments (me equating the Spirit to imagination, depreciating teachers, etc....you know, all that stuff I said only in your imagination) you and Stanley can figure it out. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Your "logic" does not let you have poetic liscence to image what we might mean.
Ask Aaron was he suggesting an infallible teacher. -
That's it @Iconoclast . You have been arguing against my statement for quite some time now. You argue against me, and if I call you out on it you say you agreed with me and then go back to arguing against me.
Make up your mind.
I will summarize my view:
1. Scripture is our authority for doctri e.
2. These spiritually dead cannot understand spiritual things
3. Believers are indwelt by the Spirit.
4. The Spirit is our "Helper".
5. We are guided by the Spirit.
6. God has given teachers to the church.
7. Teachers are subject to Scripture.
I know you must disagree with me on some point otherwise you would not have kept on arguing against me.
Which one - by number - do you reject? -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You said I did, but I did not.
I have always agreed with all seven -
-
Do you need the reference or are you starting to recall? You made several assumptions and ran with it.
I assume it was an error and you've gone too far to admit fault. But my post you argued against was numbers 2,3,4, and 5.
2. These spiritually dead cannot understand spiritual things
3. Believers are indwelt by the Spirit.
4. The Spirit is our "Helper".
5. We are guided by the Spirit. -
I think it is fair to say that @Iconoclast mistook one sentence in my quote to be a reference to John 16 and ran with the assumption.
I meant the sentence to remain in context of the whole quote. I was not referencing John 16 but was simply saying that we arrive at no spiritual truth except by the Spirit.
In other words, I was not claiming that the Spirit guides us to all spiritual truth there is to be known but that the Spirit guides us to all spiritual truth that we possess.
@Iconoclast made a simple mistake. I was wrong on the other thread to keep pushing the error. It was part light-hearted on my behalf and part trying to get him to own up to his mistake.
In trying to get @Iconoclast to own up to the mistake I also made fun of the assumption and ultimately pushed him further into defending the error. This was mean-spirited of me and for that I apologize to the board and @Iconoclast .
If you want to know what I believe it is stated on this thread. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
In the seed of the serpent thread pt2....in.post 3....I clarified my statement about the Apostles. That would have been the time to clarify your thought. -
I knew you mistook my comment and I intentionally continued to exploit the error. I did not mean it to be mean-spirited but given the context of the thread it is easy to see my comments were indulgent rather than Spirit-led. -
As far as your view, if it isn't some feeling . . . how do you know the Spirit is confirming the truth of what your pastor is saying?
Again, don't say Scripture, because then the question will be, how do you know you're seeing the Scriptures correctly? -
So you tell us - how you believe the Spirit confirms what the teachers you have chosen tell you since you rule out Scripture as the criteria? -
-
If this does not make sense to you, I am not the one who can guide you to understand. I never claimed that role.
You, @Aaron , are the one insisting that Scripture cannot be the criteria for testing spiritual things because of differences in interpretation. I believe that your conclusion misses the point of "spiritual truths". But that's another issue.
YOU assume that neither the Holy Spirit nor Scripture is the criteria for teachings, but rather that we are to follow "God given teachers". The problem is you have not been able to explain how you choose the teachers you follow absent the Spirit and Scripture.
Apart from Scripture as a standard, how do you decide to follow the teachers you select? -
My answer would be that I am guided to the answer by the Spirit through Prayer. It's really simple "Ask and you will receive" I ask all the time and in the matter of truth I am always guided to it.
MB -
How is it anyone knows the truth from a lie. Knowing starts with questions and when those questions are in God's hand they will be answered.
MB -
Could it be that the real answer lies in the Spirit confirming in our minds the truth of scripture and that scripture is the source of truth about God?
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk -
Very often, I have seen folks stumble in this topic of how the Spirit guides and leads. More often the folks fall into two categories.
One category I would perhaps label as “rejectionism” aligns tha God will only speak through His Word, that all “light, insight, wisdom, understanding, ...” can only be brought by the pure truth of The Word.
The other category I would perhaps label as “acceptionism” more often embraces extrabiblical experience of feeling, emotions, sights, signs, ... as equally valid irrespective of the Word.
Those are the extremes.
What is the Scripture perspective?
The creation is declaring the truth of God according to the Psalms.
The Spirit comes and goes at its own volition and no human can understand where it is from or where it is heading according to The Lord Jesus.
Hebrews records that the Word is living, powerful, having discernment of being able to separate soul and spirit, thoughts from intents, and even cleaving joints to expose the inner marrow.
Therefore, when it comes to guidance, the use of both the Word and the experiences of the believer are important.
The Wisemen at the birth had both the head knowledge of discernment and also the physical star.
Peter had both the Spirit of discernment and physical dreams directing him.
Paul had abundant knowledge to know mysteries of multitudes of revelations, yet, through the affliction of Satan given him, he not be puffed up, but guided.
Therefore, a standard is proposed concerning the thread.
God will use whatever God pleases to guide His children.
Some may gravitate to the senses, some to the intellect pursuits in The Word.
But neither is to be exclusive, and neither should be discounted with one exception.
The power and authority of The Word to openly and often most publicly display the separation of truth from coverup must be discerned.
Bones cover marrow.
Thoughts form from intents of the heart.
The soul (that which pertains to flesh) covers that which is the eternal spirit of the human.
Guidance of believers must engage both the wisdom of the Spirit and that of experiential. The Word be true, and every man a liar, and that God be displayed and praised. That the believer respond, “It pleased The Lord to ....” and a path is walked. -
Had Paul read the Word of God prior to his trip to Damascus? Having so read, and assuming, he assumed he understood the Word of God was he not in reality blind and in ignorance to the Word of God.
Are we not the very same. By the will of God, do we not have to have the scales of blindness removed from our minds in order to know the truth of the Word of God?
When was the blindness of Paul's mind removed? 9:15 or 9:18?
Page 3 of 5