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Featured Are musical styles amoral? Round 2.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jordan Kurecki, Aug 9, 2014.

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  1. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    this lost me. i dont understand the point.
     
    #41 Jordan Kurecki, Aug 13, 2014
  2. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Exactly my point.

    You just asked me about my personal preferences. If I answer that question, then I'm condemning something that another finds edifying.

    You just asked me to make the list of what's acceptable communication, and what's not.

    Tell you what: You don't like the music I'm listening to, tell me, and I won't play it around you.
     
    #42 Don, Aug 13, 2014
  3. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    'Cause if you really want me to answer that question, my list is gonna start with anything that has a steel guitar in it....
     
    #43 Don, Aug 13, 2014
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Let me rephrase the question. Is there a style of music you would call "excessive" or "riotous?" (Both are biblical terms btw.)
     
    #44 Aaron, Aug 13, 2014
  5. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Just as there are riotous eaters and excessive drinkers? (both biblical references, by the way)

    But it isn't the food that is riotous, or the wine that is excessive.

    If I answer your question, are you willing to abide by that answer and never listen to any music that *I* have determined is riotous or excessive?
     
    #45 Don, Aug 13, 2014
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Jordan...where do you draw the line? I mentioned in another post that one of my favorite hymns is "How Great Thou Art." But the music to that hymn was at one time contemporary (as we know it, it was set to Swedish Folk music). Is Swedish Folk music therefore sacred....or is it simply because we don't listen to that type of music here? If so, then was "How Great Thou Art?" heresy to the Swedes? Is rock sacred to cultures not exposed to the genre? Or are you opposed to any type of melody? Please describe what is music acceptable to God so that we can know exactly what you are speaking of.
     
    #46 JonC, Aug 13, 2014
  7. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    How great thou art does not have music with a sensual rhythmic technique.

    the overemphasis of rhythym in music is carnal.

    the bible says to make melody in your heart to the Lord, not Rhythm.

    I draw my lines mainly on what is driving the song, if it's melody than I will accept it, if it's rhythm, whether that's a drum set, or a piano I will reject it.

    I love melody very much.

    There are about 3 different references to making melody to God in singing, God has placed the emphasis on melody in his word.

    If you do a study on development of rhythmic techniques, you will find that in the early 1900's the heavy driving rhythms of modern rock music are a development from Ragtime,Blues, and Swing, all genres that were highly associated with carnality and rebellion, the types of rhythm drove the carnality and fit quite well with the loose living.
     
    #47 Jordan Kurecki, Aug 13, 2014
  8. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    a Swedish folk style such as How great thou art reflects the character of God with it's emphasis on melody, Rock Music style does not.

    The sounds of the musical styles reflect two very different philosophies.
     
    #48 Jordan Kurecki, Aug 13, 2014
  9. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    I really do wonder what the percentage of Rock Music/Hip-Hop/Metal songs there are that contain worldly ungodly lyrics compared to what percentage of style contained in our Baptist Hymn books that have ungodly lyrics...

    in fact I'm willing to bet that there are little to no ungodly songs written with the musical style of our hymns... I wonder why that is?

    "Can two walk together except they be agreed" -Amos 3:3

    Now I believe the existence of Rock/Hip Hop that has Godly lyrics is simply due to Carnal Christians who are double minded.
     
    #49 Jordan Kurecki, Aug 13, 2014
  10. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Country-western, anyone?
     
    #50 Don, Aug 14, 2014
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Eating and drinking are acts. So is music, like speech.

    Food and wine are objects. Music is not an object. Music is an act.

    Just answer the question.
     
    #51 Aaron, Aug 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2014
  12. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    How about: Congolese boombox gospel

    We seem to have difficulty with what "making a joyful noise unto The Lord" might mean. Some sure spend a lot on choirs in the tabernacle accompanied by grandiose instrumentation.

    Whatever it takes to get a little warm and fuzzy.

    Church is not entertainment.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #52 Bro. James, Aug 14, 2014
  13. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Au contraire, my friend. Music is the result of action and intent.

    Nope. Not until you answer the conditions.
     
    #53 Don, Aug 14, 2014
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What if you set a hymn to polka?
     
    #54 JonC, Aug 14, 2014
  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    so is a hammer with this one significant difference: lay a hammer down and walk away and it's still there. Not so with music. Music is, more accurately, interaction. Human interaction. We aren't talking about the dots on sheets of paper, neither the holes in a cd nor the alignment of dipoles on magnetic media. When one speaks of music he is speaking of the the act of communication.

    you're copping out.
     
    #55 Aaron, Aug 14, 2014
  16. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    You forget: music is nothing without the instrument. Whether it be lips that have to be used, or a drum that must be beat, or a trumpet that must be blown: without the instrument, and the person using it, the notes do not exist.

    Hardly. You're trying to trap me into a specific area, and I refuse to be your pharisee telling you what's good and what's evil.
     
    #56 Don, Aug 14, 2014
  17. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    I would like to apologize for accusing those of having a music position that is Amoral as being fleshly and carnal.

    I would like to modify what I said.

    If you hold to a position that you believe music is amoral and that genres like Christian Rock/Hip-Hop can be used to bring honor and glory to God and are fit for using to worship God, then either :

    1. You need to grow in the area of music and do some honest research and prayer about music, with the intention that no matter what you will do God's will in the area of music, even if that means turning from music that you find pleasing.

    2. You are willingly ignorant and need to repent of being willingly ignorant because you are afraid of what you will find out about music.

    3. You are carnal and choose to embrace the arguments for music being without morals simply out of a desire to please self and then you mask it as pleasing God, it may be that you are not saved or that you are out of fellowship with God. If this is you then you must repent.

    Those who accept and embrace CCM and Christian Rap,etc.. fall underneath one of those 3 categories.
     
    #57 Jordan Kurecki, Aug 14, 2014
  18. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    The musical style and intentions of the original artists who shaped the style exists long after the original artists are gone.

    if a lost person develops a musical style that is used to communicate a message of carnality, this carnality is still retained in the actually sound without the lyrics.

    if another person comes along and uses this same style, it will still retain it's original carnal sound and the carnal effects of it, regardless of what words are added to it.

    the style communicates a message.
     
    #58 Jordan Kurecki, Aug 14, 2014
  19. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    And are meaningless and worthless without someone acting upon them -- just like words.

    Then by all means, tell us what music we should only be listening to.
     
    #59 Don, Aug 14, 2014
  20. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    First you apologize and basically do the same thing again, ie. "You are carnal," "You are willingly ignorant and need to repent,..."you need to grow." Maybe it is you who needs to take a hard long look in the mirror.
     
    #60 sag38, Aug 14, 2014
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