I agree with you.
Are the unsaved still subject to the Old Testament laws
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Humpty Dumpty, Feb 26, 2020.
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Also,
'Pursue.....holiness, without which no man will see the Lord' (Hebrews 12:14).
But.....but..... Christ's commandments are grace!
'Pursue.....holiness, without which no man will see the Lord.'
But......but......we're not under the law any more!
'Pursue.....holiness, without which no man will see the Lord.'
But.....but......this is works religion!
'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived!' (1 Corinthians 6:9). -
What does Jesus save us from?
Our sins.
How do we know sin?
The Law.
The Law was given to all of us. There is no people under the sun for whom it was right to worship other gods, to make images of those gods to worship, to take the name of God in vain, to work 7 days (or not work 6) to dishonor parents, to murder, commit adultery, steal, lie or covet that which belongs to another.
It is the violation of these things that the wrath of God is coming upon the earth. -
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asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
What does it mean that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath? | GotQuestions.org
BTW this is not a preterist site. It is just one of several that I can pull up that gives a proper perspective on this Sabbath issue.
I plan to come back to this topic later. -
asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
No, He superseded the Old Covenant. In the same way He superseded the Sabbath Commandment. There is a difference between the Sabbath commandment and the other nine commandments. The Holy Spirit who now indwells believers is taught not to be adulterous - and is taught much greater insight of what adultery is, physical and spiritual. Likewise the other eight commandments are enlarged upon in the New Testament. For instance, murder is now shown to be even hating your brother."Whoever hates his brother is a murderer" 1 John 3.15
But the Sabbath commandment has no such enlargement. In fact it is not even taught in the New Covenant.
The Decalogue is specifically shown to be for Israel.
"And the Lord said to Moses, “Write these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments." Exodus 34.27 - 28
Who was the Covenant with, according to this passage? Moses and Israel.
Something else, there is no Biblical reason to imagine a threefold distinction in commandments. This is a favorite of Puritans and many Reformed leaders but it has no basis in Scripture. I think it only goes as far back as Thomas Aquinas.
James said that if one offends in one point of the Law he is guilty of all. He makes no distinction between types of commandments.
Consider the Old Testament death penalty.
Adultery - death.
Talking back to Mom and Dad - death.
Picking up sticks on the Sabbath - DEATH!
It is ironic that many of those who are most in favor of the Sabbath Commandment are themselves violators of it. They do this, first of all, by changing the day. The very name, Sabbath, should have been a safeguard against such an alteration.
There is no injunction, like I wrote earlier, to have a "Christian Sabbath". There are people in the Old Testament who tried to alter the commandments of God. It did not go well for them. -
RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
An indicator of this, as many thinkers have observed, is that, though they differ in the details, mankind has had similar moral standards throughout history, throughout the world. -
RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
The OT prophets do not just address the sins of Israel but of other nations as well, and speak of serious consequences of those sins. In Romans 1, Paul explains in some detail violations of the moral law and their serious consequences. When reminding Christians of their past, whether Jew or Gentile, Paul makes it clear that they were accountable to God's moral law before they believed in Christ.
While God's people have always had certain additional responsibilities, e.g., proclaiming God's word and standards, and Christians are under a completely New Covenant that comes with power, God's moral law is still in effect for mankind. Christians should be at the forefront in reminding people of this, with the additional charge of proclaiming the Good News of Jesus Christ. -
What is your basis to suppose when Jesus said, "my commandments," in the account in John 14:15, He was referring to Exodus 20:1-17? Please give an explanation how you came to that conclusion. -
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asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Since you say that you were once Reformed in your theology, you should be acquainted with the three-fold division of the law so I won't address it in this post although I'm happy to do so later.
Thirdly, all ten of the Commandments appear either in Genesis or in Exodus 1-18, before the giving of the law. Specifically, the fourth Commandment is found in Genesis 2:1-3 (cf. Exodus 20:11) and Exodus 16. .
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
First of all, the Ten Commandments are His commandments; He is the LORD. Why would He not be referencing them? Secondly, the 'commandments' of John 14:15 are plural' the 'new commandment' of John 13:34 is singular. It is an addition to the commandments, not a replacement for them.
Your problem, if I may say so, is that you seem to regard the Commandments as some sort of burden or imposition. They are quite the opposite. They represent the mind and the heart of God, and they are based upon love. The Christian has them written upon his heart (Hebrews 8:10); it is his delight to keep them (Psalms 40:8), and his sorrow when he fails to do so (Psalms 119:5; 1 John 1:9). May I suggest a prayerful reading of Psalm 119? 'With my whole heart I have sought You; Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments' (v.!0). -
The issue is not Who gave them but to whom they were given.
The difference, of course, is the Ten Commandments were given as a part of the Law which cannot be broken to Israel as a part of a covenant to those under that covenant. Obedience was to be righteous (in a right standing) under that covenant. It's purpose, however, was to magnify sin.
Christians are not under the Law (to include the Ten Commandments). We are under a "New Covenant". The Ten Commandments (and even the Law) are not useless but they are also not prescriptive.
If you love God you will obey His commandments. If you are of the Spirit you will bear such fruit. If you are in Christ you will walk in the light. -
When dealing with a Pharisee lawyer in Matthew 22 Jesus did not go to the "Big Ten" but to Deuteronomy 6 and Leviticus 19 to give him the two greatest commandments. Jesus knew the Law could not be broken, as did the Pharisee lawyer. But perhaps the Pharisee lawyer expected one of the Big Ten in response. We have a lot of Pharisee lawyers in the Church.
Those two commands, not the Ten Commandments, are the link upon which the whole Law depends. I do not believe it a mistake that being spiritually alive is described as having God's Spirit in us, and that we are to be holy because God is holy. These seem to go together. If you love God you will obey God because this is the Spirit of God in you.
The Law is not destroyed but fulfilled in Christ. It is a stark misunderstanding of Scripture to separate the Ten Commandments from the Law as if it embodies God's "moral code" when in fact every command is an expression of God's nature (not just the Ten Commandments) but for those under those commands. -
BTW, the seventh day Sabbath has not been changed.
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