Oh, so Willis should listen to Calvinists who corrupt and redefine words?
I think Willis is WAY too smart to ever do that.
Regeneration literally means to be made alive AGAIN. Now, this is simple, a child could understand this. You must be alive ONCE to be alive AGAIN. That is also very basic logic that a small child could easily understand. The only persons who can't understand this are you Calvinists. You redefine regeneration to mean "generation".
I have shown you a hundred times, I'll show you again, Jesus said the prodigal son was alive AGAIN.
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
I am sorry I have to over-emphasize the word "again" in this verse, but for some reason you are oblivious to it. You would rather listen to your scholars than the words of Jesus himself.
And just to make sure folks understood this, Jesus said it twice.
Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Sorry to over-emphasize the word "again" once again, but if Jesus over-emphasized it, so can I. Perhaps he foresaw you Calvinists who would come along centuries later?
You just go on and believe Augustine, I will believe Jesus.
Are there even biblical arminians posting On The baptist Board?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Oct 22, 2012.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Willis,
God has said that all died in Adam. he does not give a step by step description of how this is passed down...just that it is so.
3) If one is born spiritually dead, then how can someone/anyone be made alive again, a la regenerated......which means to be made alive again?
You and you alone are drawing this wrong conclusion. I will not ever say or imply that God is the author of sin. That is just wicked. I start with the biblical presupposition that God is perfect in Holiness. All biblical calvinists do.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
show any supposed greek scholar who teaches any different here...go ahead..post it...
No....you and Hos just cannot face the fact of what the scripture teaches here and in other places...you have no answer....just error...so you attempt to dis-credit the truth but we are not buying it:thumbsup: -
You are not going to get an honest debate from these guys, they will always use dishonest and unethical tactics like this. This post is a perfect example of that.
They think folks are fooled, but no one is. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Willis,
you did not respond to this:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
Willis,
I cannot agree to your idea ,as I believe it is unbiblical in several ways
In your idea...men are born spiritually alive.
That would mean they are born indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
That would mean they lose salvation when they commit and act of sin.
that would mean they were not sealed with the Spirit like Eph 1 says.
that would mean romans 3 :23 does not say this as i posted to Winman:
Quote:
8 The use of the aor. in both Romans passages, in their given context, point to an event, i.e., mankind did not simply inherit a sinful nature or tendency from Adam—“all have sinned,” thus referring to personal experience and activity,
but “all sinned” in an event, a point in time (Rom. 3:23, pa,ntej ga.r h[marton kai. u`sterou/ntai th/j do,xhj tou/ qeou/. “For all sinned and are subsequently constantly coming short…”
Rom. 5:12, …diV e`no.j avnqrw,pou h` a`marti,a eivj to.n ko,smon…evfV w-| pa,ntej h[marton. “by one man sin entered into the world…for all sinned.”). Every human being is a sinner by imputation, nature and personal activity. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
winman.
right here:
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I trust Barack Obama more than you. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You have no answer ...so you divert away from scripture...yes we understand:thumbsup: -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast said: ↑You cannot respond to what was posted except to attempt to discredit the teaching offered. Which comes as no surprise as if you avoiding the posts correcting your non stop error...will somehow not show the truth to stand in contrast to your undermining of those truths:laugh::laugh::laugh:
You have no answer ...so you divert away from scripture...yes we understand:thumbsup:Click to expand...
You yourself twist scripture, you said;
God has said that all died in Adam. he does not give a step by step description of how this is passed down...just that it is so.Click to expand...
1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
The scriptures do not say all men died (past tense) in Adam as you falsely teach, the scriptures say in Adam "all die" (future tense). You twist scripture. For a man to "die" he must first be alive. This verse actually refutes Calvinism, but you like many others misquote it and misrepresent it.
I have also seen many Calvinists use this verse to speak of spiritual death when it is speaking of physical death only. The entire 15th chapter of 1st Corinthians deals with the resurrection of our physical bodies, not spiritual death.
Calvinists also misapply Romans 5:12 to be speaking of physical death when it is speaking of spiritual death. Calvinism nearly always interprets scripture to mean the exact opposite of what it truly says. You are not yet aware of this, but perhaps someday you will see it is true.
Your explanation of Romans 7:9 is that Paul did not really mean what he said. You do not even address the scriptures I showed you in Luke 15 because you cannot possibly explain them. You know this so you conveniently ignore them.
Maybe simple Calvinists like you are fooled, I am not. -
Wouldn't it be good if there was a church where these differing views would be allowed?
I have come to regard Icon as a friend, and I would not want to see him rejected from a church i was in, even though our views are opposite on some things. -
Iconoclast said: ↑Willis,
you did not respond to this:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
Willis,
I cannot agree to your idea ,as I believe it is unbiblical in several ways
In your idea...men are born spiritually alive.
That would mean they are born indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
That would mean they lose salvation when they commit and act of sin.
that would mean they were not sealed with the Spirit like Eph 1 says.
that would mean romans 3 :23 does not say this as i posted to Winman:
Quote:
8 The use of the aor. in both Romans passages, in their given context, point to an event, i.e., mankind did not simply inherit a sinful nature or tendency from Adam—“all have sinned,” thus referring to personal experience and activity,
but “all sinned” in an event, a point in time (Rom. 3:23, pa,ntej ga.r h[marton kai. u`sterou/ntai th/j do,xhj tou/ qeou/. “For all sinned and are subsequently constantly coming short…”
Rom. 5:12, …diV e`no.j avnqrw,pou h` a`marti,a eivj to.n ko,smon…evfV w-| pa,ntej h[marton. “by one man sin entered into the world…for all sinned.”). Every human being is a sinner by imputation, nature and personal activity.Click to expand... -
Iconoclast said: ↑Willis,
The spirit/soul comes from God who gave it. It returns to God.Click to expand...
God has said that all died in Adam. he does not give a step by step description of how this is passed down...just that it is so.Click to expand...
Why would you make such an evil statement Willis. We are not made like a camera with a sinful SD card in our brain. God does not make anyone sin. They sin because they are sinners:Click to expand...
:confused: Please go back and reread what I posted. I never stated this. You misquoted me here.
That is what God says. The psalmist does not say....you have made me sin. we our sinners because of Adam and Eve.Click to expand...
Until you stop thinking that God is in anyway responsible for our sin...you should not engage in the discussion as you and these others insist on refusing the clear teaching of romans 3, and romans 5.Click to expand...
You and you alone are drawing this wrong conclusion. I will not ever say or imply that God is the author of sin. That is just wicked. I start with the biblical presupposition that God is perfect in Holiness. All biblical calvinists do.Click to expand...
Willis....my opinion, or your opinion are useless. What God's word says is what matters. i can only offer what the scripture calls revealed truth according to the analogy of faith. I want to think God's thoughts after HIM.. My thoughts apart from Divine revelation are useless.Click to expand...
Opinions don't change the truth. But it tells us what each other believes. -
Winman said: ↑You are pathetic, The Biblicist explained to you just last week that I do not believe Jesus had a sin nature. You know that. You are either the most forgetful person ever to post at BB or intentionally dishonest. Which is it?
Scripture says Jesus took on the nature of the seed of Abraham, was made like unto his brethren in ALL THINGS, and was in ALL POINTS tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Jesus was subjected to exactly the same effects of the fall that all men were.
He came to save us from our sins. What does that have to do with the discussion?
You don't have a problem with Adam and Eve being created sinless do you? Why not?
Your argument is bogus. Adam and Eve were sinless and created in a perfect world, yet sinned the first time they were tempted. What makes you think that we who are born into an utterly corrupt world with thousands of temptations would do any better?
It is not amazing that all men sin, what is amazing is that Jesus lived as a man for 33 years in this corrupt world with thousands of temptations and NEVER sinned. THAT is what is amazing.
Fact is, the scriptures say ALL MEN have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The scriptures do not say that Adam's sin was imputed to all men as you falsely teach.Click to expand...
He is NOT same as any other human, as he was sinless human and God!
THAT is why He did not sin, as he was God in perfect sinless flesh! -
Yeshua1 said: ↑How was jesus born sinless though? Are ALL born without a sin nature like he was, if not, How did he have it?Click to expand...
Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
I have posted this verse dozens, if not hundreds of times. You know that perfectly well. What is wrong with you? How many times does a person have to answer you before it registers in your brain? If you are a representative of Calvinism, then Calvinism is in serious trouble.
No, you know perfectly well what I believe, you just play stupid. You do it well.
He is NOT same as any other human, as he was sinless human and God!Click to expand...
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Scripture says Jesus was made like his brethren in ALL THINGS. What part of "all things" do you not understand?
THAT is why He did not sin, as he was God in perfect sinless flesh!Click to expand...
Jhn 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Jesus said "IF" he should deny that he knew his Father, he would be a liar. The word "if" denotes possibility. Jesus had the ability to sin, but chose never to sin.
Now, before you forget and ask these same exact questions next week, print out these answers I have given you. When you forget in 3 days, remember this copy and read it. Your dumb act is getting old. -
Winman said: ↑You know very well I believe all men are born upright, I have posted it a hundred times.
Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
I have posted this verse dozens, if not hundreds of times. You know that perfectly well. What is wrong with you? How many times does a person have to answer you before it registers in your brain? If you are a representative of Calvinism, then Calvinism is in serious trouble.
No, you know perfectly well what I believe, you just play stupid. You do it well.
Jesus was the same as every human, I have showed you this scripture dozens of times as well. The only difference is that Jesus never chose to sin.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Scripture says Jesus was made like his brethren in ALL THINGS. What part of "all things" do you not understand?
Jesus did not sin because he chose to be obedient to his Father and never sin, not because he was unable to sin. I have also shown you scripture where Jesus implied he had the ability to lie.
Jhn 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Jesus said "IF" he should deny that he knew his Father, he would be a liar. The word "if" denotes possibility. Jesus had the ability to sin, but chose never to sin.
Now, before you forget and ask these same exact questions next week, print out these answers I have given you. When you forget in 3 days, remember this copy and read it. Your dumb act is getting old.Click to expand...
NOT real christianity! -
Yeshua1 said: ↑IF you actually hold to humans being born without sin, and IF you hold that Jesus was not God in human flesh, IF you hold that he said could sin...
NOT real christianity!Click to expand...
Again Calvinism shows to the world how corrupt and dishonest it is, when did I ever say Jesus was not God? You can't possibly show that, because I never said or implied any such thing.
Just as Iconoclast intentionally misrepresented Willis, you intentionally misrepresent me. You guys cannot win an honest debate, so you must resort to dishonest tactics. Despicable, but I know you have no shame.
As Jesus said;
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Anybody who thinks they can hold an honest debate with Calvinists is deluded. -
Winman said: ↑Again Calvinism shows to the world how corrupt and dishonest it is, when did I ever say Jesus was not God? You can't possibly show that, because I never said or implied any such thing.
Just as Iconoclast intentionally misrepresented Willis, you intentionally misrepresent me. You guys cannot win an honest debate, so you must resort to dishonest tactics. Despicable, but I know you have no shame.
As Jesus said;
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Anybody who thinks they can hold an honest debate with Calvinists is deluded.Click to expand...
was Jesus JUST the same as you at His birth?
Did he keep from sinning because he was God or not? -
Yeshua1 said: ↑was Jesus JUST the same as you at His birth?
Did he keep from sinning because he was God or not?Click to expand...
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Jesus was not a programmed robot without the ability to make contrary choices. He was found in the fashion of a man and could choose to either obey or disobey his Father. Jesus chose to always obey his Father and therefore never sinned.
I have already showed you John 8:55 where Jesus said that "if" he denied he knew his Father, then he would be a liar. The word "if" shows that it was possible for Jesus to deny his Father.
I am not denying that Jesus is God at all. But Jesus came in the flesh. Any man that denies Jesus came in the flesh is the spirit of antichrist.
You don't get it, Jesus had to be exactly like us to redeem us and save us from sin. He had to choose to obey where we chose to disobey. He had to endure temptation and be victorious over it where we failed.
If you don't understand my view, then ask questions, but don't intentionally misrepresent me as you have done. -
Winman said: ↑Jesus IS God, but Jesus came in the form and nature of man. He was able to be tempted, which God in heaven cannot be. Jesus could have chosen to sin but did not. The scriptures say he was obedient.
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Jesus was not a programmed robot without the ability to make contrary choices. He was found in the fashion of a man and could choose to either obey or disobey his Father. Jesus chose to always obey his Father and therefore never sinned.
I have already showed you John 8:55 where Jesus said that "if" he denied he knew his Father, then he would be a liar. The word "if" shows that it was possible for Jesus to deny his Father.
I am not denying that Jesus is God at all. But Jesus came in the flesh. Any man that denies Jesus came in the flesh is the spirit of antichrist.
You don't get it, Jesus had to be exactly like us to redeem us and save us from sin. He had to choose to obey where we chose to disobey. He had to endure temptation and be victorious over it where we failed.
If you don't understand my view, then ask questions, but don't intentionally misrepresent me as you have done.Click to expand...
God had foreordained Him to die upon the Cross, NOT was "might" die on the Cross, was foreordained that he WOULD die!
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