==Many modern Baptists who hold to Arminian positions deny that they are Arminians. They will say things like "I am not Arminian or Calvinistic, I am a Baptist". What they forget is that those labels identify certain theological belief systems. The simple fact is that everyone falls into one of the two camps. Even if they don't want to identify themselves as belonging to one of the two camps everyone is in one camp or another to one degree or another. I'm certain that if the theological system of some of those who voted "neither" was examined they would generally be labeled as Arminian. They may not agree with every point of Arminian soteriology but generally speaking they are Arminian.
Are you a Calvinist?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by RichardJS, Mar 18, 2007.
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Grace and Peace,
I am fine with being labeled Arminian. Stone away! :tonofbricks: -
I hold to all five points of calvinism. Does that surprise any of you? :laugh:
I agree with Rippon that if you completely understand the depravity of man, the rest is easy. I'm sure that there are many who disagree with irrestible grace and or limited attonement. As far as the attonement, most all of us limit it. I prefer particular redemption. As far as irrestible grace, I hold that many resist God's calling, but they will not resist His effectual call ......... all that the Father gives me will come. -
"Even if they don't want to identify themselves as belonging to one of the two camps everyone is in one camp or another to one degree or another. I'm certain that if the theological system of some of those who voted "neither" was examined they would generally be labeled as Arminian. They may not agree with every point of Arminian soteriology but generally speaking they are Arminian." -
Edited because poster changed denomination to baptist
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If one is a 5 point Calvinist should they use the term "Reformed," such as "Reformed Baptist?" From an epistemlogical point of view the term "Reformed" could be used with "Baptist," but historically speaking the world "Reformed" includes theological beliefs that Baptists would deny such as infant baptism, [reformed] covenant theology, the The Three Forms of Unity, etc.
You thoughts?
Peace,
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There are two kinds of people. Those who see all issues in tems of "either-or" and those who think along the lines of a continuum. "Either-orers" insist that a person MUST be either C or A. Continuum thinkers are not burdened by "either-or" thinking (or enlightened by it depending on your point of view). They freely acknowledge that there are mysteries about God which they cannot fathom and they are comfortable in not knowing the unknowable.
I am calvinistic in my theology. I do not count the points because each is dependent upon the definition one accepts. While some here are saying that the key to understanding and accepting calvinism is to understand the depravity of man, others who are strong calvinists insist that understanding and accepting calvinism is dependent upon understanding and accepting sovereign election. As long as I find calvinists who cannot agree about their own system, I am not subscribing. -
Correct, it's not either or...there is also pelagian and amyraldian!
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Arminian Theology: God wants all people to be saved.
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. - 2 Pet. 3:9*
[God] desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. - 1 Tim. 2:4
Starting point for Calvinist/Reformed theology: God is sovereign and decrees certain things.
…My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. (11)… What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do. - Isa. 46:10-11
These two starting points establish divergent views of Man's participation in his own Salvation; which from the Arminian point-of-view is a certain synergistism and not passivism as Calvinism tends towards.
I believe it is important to recognize that both are borne from the same Reformed Tradition of Biblical Exegesis.
Peace and God Bless. -
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I am currently attending Grove Ave. Baptist Church thank you very much. I cannot change my original denomination when I joined this community. If someone can tell me how to change this I'd be very glad to do so.
Thanks and God Bless. -
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I suppose all of this is determined by how broad one defines both Arminianism and Calvinism. Like I said I don't believe there is an "in between" position. So my view is that both views meet so that there are Arminians who seem close to some Calvinistic beliefs and there are Calvinists who seem close to some Arminian beliefs. As for a Baptist saying they are not Calvinist or Arminian but Baptist; as a historian I can't understand that statement. Why not? Because historically Baptists have been both Arminian and Calvinist throughout American and church history. Baptist describes a mode of baptism and church government not a specific soteriological position. -
Nice post. If you know, could you give us an example of early Baptist's who hold to both soteriological positions?
Thanks and God Bless.
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Now picture this, "As long as I find Baptists who cannot agree about their own system, I'm not subscribing."
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One of the tenancts of being a Baptist is soul liberty which GUARANTEES disagreement. If I find a group of Baptists who agree about everything I'm staying away from them!!! :thumbs:
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The General Baptists pretty much died out, and nearly all the Baptist groups in the U.S. today, and in England (even the Arminian baptists) are descended from the Particular Baptists. I hope I got that right.
Here is Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Baptists
How all that relates to Regular Baptists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_Baptists
This is also interesting as it relates to American baptists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_Baptists
If there is some dispute about anything in those articles, here's the chance to contribute to Wikipedia, too!
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