As both hold to Sabbath, keeping OT laws now, etc?
Aren't Armstrong WW Church of God about same as the SDA?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Aug 8, 2013.
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They are comparable in many ways... sabbath keeping [setting aside the first day of the week as a day of worship is the "mark of the beast"], clean and unclean [food] regulations, "soul sleep" and no damnation of unbelievers [rather annihilation of the soul or eternal death].
One thing to make clear, though, is that the Worldwide Church of God is no longer the cult Armstrong originally developed as the Radio Church of God. That church went mainline, per se, not many years after Armstrong's death, and then those still loyal to Armstrong's peculiar teachings left it and began the "United Church of God."
Where the present UGA and SDA differ likely (AFAIK) would be in Armstrong's belief in "British Israelism" and in his tenet that there are pluralities of Gods and universities [in that like LDS, but I don't think he taught man can become a God]. The UGA "Fundamental Beliefs" does not state British Israelism, but it is emphatic that Abraham was the father of many nations, which leads some to conclude that the empire that controls the ways and "gates" over the world [some scripture somewhere actually says something like that] is blessed of God-- thus, as the British Empire was the most worldwide and went around Cape Horn to the far east, controlled Egypt and the Suez Canal, et al, the British/English must be Abe's blood descendants.
Actually, I'm not certain of SDA's position on the Trinity-- they don't say much about it regardless of position. But UGA continues Armstrong's denial of the Trinity; that the Holy Spirit is "the power" of God the Father and His Son, likening it to electricity where God flips the switch.
Maybe it all essentially comes down to their acknowledged source of 'revelation'-- White or Armstrong-- with not a great deal of difference. One marked difference, however, is that Armstrong originally began teaching in 1928, with radio still new, that there would be 2 19-year periods of teaching and reaching the world before the present age ends, which made it 1968. When it did not happen, Armstrong actually disqualified himself as a prophet. He was still an apostle with THE right message, but he did not get into predicting dates or years after that. With White, about 8 decades earlier, her dates were failed prophecies in the recent past-- that is, that the end of the age was supposed to have been when the Adventists claimed [184?], but that God changed his mind because of the Christian world's failure to observe the right day of worship. If SDA's say they "do not, and have never," predicted the date of the end, this is what they mean...the Adventists did, but the remaining ones who became the Seventh Day Adventists, did not in the time they have been known as such. -
hmm - what do the "Seventh-day Baptists" think of that idea?
Oh no wait! What did "D.L. Moody" say ?
Let's let him speak for himself.
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[FONT="]DWIGHT L. MOODY[/FONT][FONT="]The Ten Commandments:[/FONT][FONT="]
Exodus 20:2-17 [/FONT]
THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly?You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales?Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?.
The Fourth Commandment
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.
I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was.I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It isjust as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.
The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins withthe word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stoneat Sinai.How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?
I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.
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Reading test.
1. What did Moody think of "Sabbath breakers" -- according to the actual text - not your preference.
2. Was Moody right to try and bend the 4th commandment to make it point to week day 1 - instead of "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God" Ex 20:8-11?
3. D.L. Moody (the arminian) appears to be in 100% agreement with the "Baptist Confession of Faith" in his promotion of the 4th commandment. How can that be if the Baptist Confession of Faith is just for Calvinists?
in Christ,
Bob[/FONT] -
It is one of our 28 Fundamental beliefs and is one of the first topics covered in all of our evangelistic meetings.
So...err...umm.. "other than that", yeah I guess you could call it "not much to say".:laugh::godisgood:
in Christ,
Bob -
1. Ate pork, drank coffee, smoked (some of them)
2. Worshiped on Sundays
3. Did not know anything about Ellen White.
4. Did not have our view of the state of the dead.
5. Did not teach anything about the heavenly Sanctuary of Heb 8 and 9.
6. looked just like the average Baptist in the way they worshiped and in everything they did other than their view of the 2300 year timeline.
They were called "Adventists" for daring to teach that the 2nd coming was going to be before the 1000 year millennium. That is a "big deal" in their day - even by Walter Martin's standards.
So that's my "fast half dozen" differences.
in Christ,
Bob -
Extra biblical revelations
false/another Gospel -
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hint - that is a direct quote from Moody that you are whining about.
Read it - and respond to what he actually said in stead of just slinging accusations.
Substance over smoke. -- for a change. -
There are still similarities with Herbert Armstrong... the beginning of the end, the curse from not remembering the right day, the new church-- his, of course, was based on new technologies.
And there was Joseph Smith [Mormon Church], Charles T. Russell [Jehovah's Witnesses], Victor Paul Weirwille [The Way International], Jim Jones [The Peoples' Temple], and others. They all claimed to be the only channel by which God makes his will known today, either by new revelations or by the correct interpretation of the old revelations [The Bible]. The have to have some peculiar doctrines to differentiate them and their groups from 'mainstream' theology. Some are sabbatarians, some aren't; some eat meat, some don't; some reintroduce long past practices like polygamy or complete surrender of all decisions, worldly or 'spiritual' some don't...but almost all attack the Trinity, SDA's evidently do not... and all deny eternal damnation of the wicked or nonbeliever.
About 25-30 years ago I did a lot of research into cults, and these are the basic points that stick without having to start looking for more books and refs. -
They are tritheistic.
Completely different beliefs concerning the nature of God.
They even changed their "bible" to make it fit their false beliefs.
Is there anyone here who doesn't know that the SDA's have their own radically different "bible"?
That probably would be a good topic of discussion in itself. -
Just so many "inconvenient details" for those wanting to tell a story - but even so it is fact.
Again - just so many "inconvenient details" for those wanting to tell a story - and not content to let facts get in the way of a good "story".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Edson
The Millerites were using the same day for year principle for the 2300 years of Dan 8 as for the 490 years of Dan 9 and the 1260 used by all Christians, and the 1260 years for Dan 7 that even the Protestant reformers were using.
Again - just so many "inconvenient details" for those wanting to tell a story - and not content to let facts get in the way of a good "story".
Again - just so many "inconvenient details" for those wanting to tell a story - and not content to let facts get in the way of a good "story".
In fact as Martin notes in his book - the main gripe against Seventh-day Adventists and Millerites at the time was that they were premillennial and the general - popular view of their day was dead set against it.
Again - just so many "inconvenient details" for those wanting to tell a story - and not content to let facts get in the way of a good "story".
"One God in three Persons" is exactly what we find in the Bible and in the teaching of the Adventist Church.
in Christ,
Bob -
Bro. James Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
False prophets(esses) have been around since Satan convinced Eve she would not surely die eating the fruit forbidden. Eve was beguiled. Adam sinned willfully.
The world is filled with false religion--the religions of man are everywhere--all false. Christendom is filled with latter day prophets with many false gospels. Memorize the Letter to the Galatians.
Jesus said all who came before Him were thieves and robbers; and many would come after Him saying He is Christ. "Do not believe them!!!!!"
If your religion is founded by a man or woman, you have a problem. God is not the author of confusion. The basic paradigm is: salvation by works. If you have to keep something law-like you are worshipping in vain. See: Galatians and Ephesians.
See the last verses of Revelation. There are no more prophets. The Word of God is the witness, with The Holy Spirit convicting of sin, righteousness and judgement to come.
Where will we be in 100 years? Are we sure? Will our anchor hold?
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Bro. James -
False Messiahs and false Prophets have been around for a long time.
But that never excuses us from the act of rejecting the true. -
Bro. James Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
BobRyan: where will you be in 100 years?
Salvation is of the Lord.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Bro. James -
Another SDA false teaching. -
Unless the Lord opens BR's eyes, he'll get his wish eventually. He'll be judged by the law and be found out to be a lawbreaker like everyone else and will receive the just punishment of one. BR would rather brag about his "righteousness" than rest in the righteousness of Jesus who fulfilled the law for us.
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Turns out - that is pretty easy to do.
But I am not clear on who ever doubted it.
in Christ,
Bob -
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Were that true then you would accept - and not reject Is 66:23.
Were that true then you would accept and not reject 1Cor 14:1.
Were that true then you would accept and not reject 1Thess 5:19-20.
the list keeps going from here....
in Christ,
Bob
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