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This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.
If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential , if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.
Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.
Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].
Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks
Iconoclast
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This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.
If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential , if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.
Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.
Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].
Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks
Click to expand...
Your understanding is correct.
Salvation IN CHRIST is 100% certain.
The issue quickly
becomes
a question. Am I in saving union with Christ by God given faith?
Paul wrote in 2 cor 13:5-6 urging believers to such an intense self examination.
In Hebrews6 after the warning for apostasy the writer speaks of things that accompany salvation.
These things make up about 85 percent of what the Puritans and Reformed
people were looking for and wrote about.
The resistance to altar calls, sinners prayers find their basis in this area primarily. Good topic for discussion!
Yeshua1
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This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.
If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential , if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.
Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.
Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].
Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks
Click to expand...
We all will die or rapture out with some type of unrepentant sin, as none of us will be spiritually perfected until resurrected state!
Yeshua1
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Your understanding is correct.
Salvation IN CHRIST is 100% certain.
The issue quickly
becomes
a question. Am I in saving union with Christ by God given faith?
Paul wrote in 2 cor 13:5-6 urging believers to such an intense self examination.
In Hebrews6 after the warning for apostasy the writer speaks of things that accompany salvation.
These things make up about 85 percent of what the Puritans and Reformed
people were looking for and wrote about.
The resistance to altar calls, sinners prayers find their basis in this area primarily. Good topic for discussion!
Click to expand...
The key is if we have really been born again, as John makes it clear can know right not really saved, so the truth is that we will be kept by God Himself unto death!
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The English is mangled up, I don't understand what you wrote.
Also, not sure how that answers the OP.
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Well I fully agree with that, and it's a challenge to the Calvinist position of Lordship salvation, but that's a different topic.
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This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.
If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential , if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.
Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.
Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].
Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks
Click to expand...
Is there something called repentant sin?
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So spiritual perfection is not based on faith in Christ?
Yeshua1
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One can be a Calvinist and not hold to Lordship salvation as they define it as meaning!
Yeshua1
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We are fully Justified right now, but not fully sanctified until glorification happens!
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Acts 15:9 "He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith".
Spiritual perfection is also through faith in grace.
Yeshua1
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We will never reach a state of spiritual perfection in this life!
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Hebrews 10:14 : "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified".
Through faith in Christ's blood, I am spiritually perfect.
Yeshua1
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Hebrews 10:14 : "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified".
Through faith in Christ's blood, I am spiritually perfect.
Click to expand...
We are fully justified, but will not be fully sanctified in this life!
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That's because of the lack of growing in faith.
rsr
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This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.
Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.
Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].
Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks
Click to expand...
I am in the minority, but I think Augustine was closer to the truth than Calvin, so I think you've got it about right.
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Lack of assurance is because of lack of growing in faith. The problem isn't Calvinism.
rsr
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Glad we got that cleared up. Although you seem to think there's a "problem" to be solved and I don't see it as a "problem" at all.
Yeshua1
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No, its due to still having our flesh, sin nature in this life!
Yeshua1
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How was Calvin any different?