God was placed to crush to the point of death Jesus, as both of them knew by Hios willing death as atonement for sins his own would get saved!
Atonement Theories
Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 10, 2018.
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Steve Allen Member
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Steve Allen Member
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Steve Allen Member
Ok, I updated it from my computer.
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Steve Allen Member
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Steve Allen Member
No one is arguing that the wrath of God will not be poured out on sinners at the final judgement, or that hell doesn't include the wrath of God towards lost sinners.
We are saying that the crushing didn't involve "Jesus taking and bearing [that] wrath". -
Steve Allen Member
The cup that Jesus drank and the cup of the wrath of God are two different cups.
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I am not interested in playing word games, but I'm happy to discuss the Scriptures with you. :) This topic has been discussed previously in mind-numbing detail and I have put my various arguments on my blog. You can find the links on Post #28, though I can cut and paste any particular points you may want to raise.. -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Steve Allen Member
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
God tells us that He is, 'merciful and gracious, and abounding with goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty.......' (Exodus 34:6-7). How does God forgive iniquity, transgression and sin if He by no means clears the guilty? -
Steve Allen Member
You may/should also provide an explanation of how that doesn't mean they are co-redeemers (on the one hand) and it doesn't mean they will not be saved (on the other).
(Note: I read your blog post on PSA and the Trinity, and you do explicitly say, there, that the cup He was talking to them about is the same cup He's asking the Father to take from Him in the garden, which is, you say, that cup of the wine of the wrath of God against sin. You don't, however, mention the fact that He said they would drink the same cup, or how that jives with your theory. That's why I'm asking you to do so here. Once we get this straightened out, then we can look at another option, and find out if maybe it's actually the same option in different terms, or something different.)
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Steve Allen Member
As a preview, the verse you quoted, and particularly the part you underline, betrays you. It says, "by no means". Does "by no means" mean what it says as absolutely as it seems to be saying it? If so, then even the means of crushing an innocent person wouldn't do it. So that needs to be unpacked a bit before we just go assuming things.
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