OK, You are a Calvinist, You believe that God does it all, Right?
You claim you are regenerated (made anew)
Have you repented from sin?
Do you still sin?
What happens to you based on your own post atonement sins?
Atonement
Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Yelsew, Mar 31, 2003.
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My answer would be: Because we still live in the flesh, and the flesh has desires that run contrary to the Spirit.
"why do we need to confess and receive forgiveness again?"
The word "again" in this question implies that to confess and be forgiven of a sin we commit is the same thing as having to be "re-saved". IMO, that's the error. We don't need to confess and receive forgiveness from the perspective of salvation. We desire to confess and receive forgiveness because we are His, and the Spirit motivates us to remain in close fellowship with Him and conform to His will.
"Are we not saved from past, present, and future sins"?
Yes, we are saved from them, in that we are spared the wrath we deserve. The sins we commit, having been saved, do not put us back in a position of being objects of wrath, so there is no need to be forgiven in order to be saved from them again.
But it is the right thing to do, and we are better off in terms of our relationship with God here on earth if we confess the sins we commit even in our saved condition. It may also affect our heavenly reward, although I haven't really looked into that from a scriptural perspective, so take it with a grain of salt. -
Pastor Larry,
I agree with your post dated March 31st. at 9:35 a.m. Excellent answer and Biblical.
Have a good day in Chrst.
Ray :cool: -
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I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I have often wondered why we are told we must confess our sins daily, when I can't find anything like that in the Word. (I still do it, mind you, but I'd like to see what other people see as the Scriptural support for doing so.) -
Scott E. You mentioned John 1:8 in connection with confessing. I take it you mean 1John 9. It is rendered "if we confess..." in some versions (KJV, ASV, Darby, LITV, MKJV etc.). It does not refer to "confessing our sins at the point of salvation", quoting you. I believe the tense of the verb proves this, which is present active, subjunctive. A T Robertson properly renders "if we keep on confessing" in his NT Word Pictures.
As for daily confessing sins I do not think I have seen any Scriptures in the NT which specifically speaks about such a thing. I come to think of the pedobaptist heretic Luther putting forth some such views, like daily mortifying the flesh and daily renewing oneself or something like it. It must be understood that no man is able to confess sins to God acceptably apart from Christ and Holy Spirit empowerment. Many be those who boast about how often they confess sins to God, making themselves look pious in the eyes of men, but the vast majority of such confessors have never confessed to God in the Holy Spirit, but their confessions is but empty and vain noise in God's ears.
I confess that I have no ability of confessing sins acceptably to God unless God should grant it to me by His Spirit. It is simply not in my power to confess righteously apart from divine enablement and empowerment. The same applies to repentance on the whole, and any other purely spiritual act or exercise.
Harald -
Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
Where is the Scriptural basis for this? People often quote John 1:8, but this seems to be about confessing our sins at the point of salvation. Where do we see in the new convenant that we must continue to confess our sins even if we are saved?Click to expand...
Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I have often wondered why we are told we must confess our sins daily, when I can't find anything like that in the Word. (I still do it, mind you, but I'd like to see what other people see as the Scriptural support for doing so.)Click to expand... -
Originally posted by Harald:
It must be understood that no man is able to confess sins to God acceptably apart from Christ and Holy Spirit empowerment.Click to expand...
Many be those who boast about how often they confess sins to God, making themselves look pious in the eyes of men, but the vast majority of such confessors have never confessed to God in the Holy Spirit, but their confessions is but empty and vain noise in God's ears.
HaraldClick to expand... -
Originally posted by npetreley:
I think you may be on to something there. I've always heard that passage from 1 John 1 used outside the context of salvation, too, but now that I re-read it, it seems pretty clear that it's addressing salvation.Click to expand...
Given the above, it's a better question than I thought. [/QB]Click to expand...
It's nice to find an issue that we are challenged with together. Times like this make us realize that we are not as far apart as we sometimes think!
SEC -
Originally posted by Brother Bill:
The last time I checked "brothers" was a reference to those who believe:
12 Watch out, brothers, so that there won't be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that departs from the living God.
How does one depart from one he has never come too?Click to expand...
How can you be so sure the response to the Holy Spirit is the evidence and not the cause of salvation,Click to expand...
Just look at all the "If...then" passages. If you respond this way, then this will happen. These texts lead us to believe that our response in the direct cause of salvation.Click to expand...
What seems contradictory in your view is that you believe man's response to resist the Holy Spirit is the direct cause of one not being saved, but his response to accept the Holy Spirit is merely evidence that he has already been saved.Click to expand...
ecause of the illogical nature of this thinking it would have to be clearly laid out in the scriptures for anyone who has not been dogmatized by Calvinistic teachings to accept it.Click to expand...
The author refers to the Israelites not entering because of their unbelief. Now the proper assumption would be that had they believed they would have entered, right? Not according to the way you do hermeneutics. You would you have us believe that their entrance into Israel was not a result of their believing God, but merely evidence that they were already in Israel, which is pure nonsense.Click to expand...
Unless someone sits down and really lays out the Calvinistic dogma I don't believe many would accept that simply from reading the text as it is.Click to expand...
[ April 01, 2003, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ] -
Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
It's nice to find an issue that we are challenged with together. Times like this make us realize that we are not as far apart as we sometimes think!
SECClick to expand... -
Don't want to muddy the waters by jumping into the pool, but seems there is a great discussion going on here and while the answers have been supplied some would yet rather crawfish than to see the truth.
We are saved from past, present and future sin(s) when we receive the Grace of God. This has nothing to do with our "acceptance" of Christ. This is true whether we have a weak faith or a strong faith.
Christmas Evans once said (paraphrase) 'the same act that feeds an adult male in his greatest strength, also feeds a young child though that strength is not yet great.'
We are not 'saved' again when we do confess our sin, but we do restore our fellowship with God.
If folks could take John 11 for what it is it would easily be understood that we are called from the 'grave' as Lazarus and that we come forth from that place under the power of the Holy Spirit, yet bound by our 'graveclothes' until coming to the place where Christ is when we shall hear Him say 'loose him and let him go.'
Cofession of our sins, in order to restore fellowship is with the view of repentance rather than confession; this is in view of our future reward and that in the kingdom rather than in heaven where the whole family of God will be finally equal.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas -
In John 16:8 Jesus does not say that when He [the Spirit} comes that He will reprove the church of sin and of righteousness and of judgment. He rather certifies that when the Holy Spirit comes He will ' . . . reprove the world of sin . . . ' The first point of Arminian theology is "Prevenient Grace" which is the ministry of the Holy Spirit that goes before the sinner finds Christ or is found of Him. This is in contrast of the alleged, "Effectual Call" suggested by Calvinistic teaching. Since we understand the meaning of the just mentioned term, let me jot down the alternate view.
First, the ministry of the Holy Spirit before receiving Christ overrides the depravity of human beings, inhibiting the full intensity of the Fall, so that sinners can respond with mind, conscience, and will to the general call of the Gospel. Calvinism hides the 'image of God' in human beings [James 3:9] as though it were a demented child.
John Wesley used "Governance" to interpret Divine sovereignty, so also he used "Prevenient Grace" to explain depravity. Jesus still 'lights every sinner coming into the world.' [John 1:9]
Regeneration before a human response of faith is a unsubtle error. None of the Persons of the Godhead move into a human being without a personal welcome. What goes for the saints in Revelation 3:20 is also Jesus approach to the lost sinner. 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock!' Forced entry is not His forte. -
demented childClick to expand...
This obviously is resulted by the sin nature inherited at birth and not that the sin nature is improved upon after exposure to this world. This is where your argument falls as explained elsewhere to bro. Bill, were each individual not depraved they would not be subject to death at the moment of conception, even prior to birth.
The way I understand Yelsew's post: "Atonement" his argument would be such that the atonement did not 'atone' his proof offered is that man continues to sin and must continue to confess in order to receive forgiveness.
The limitations placed on the work of the Son of God has no depth in the mind of a 'free-will' advocate.
Bro. Dallas
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