1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Balaam showed No Free Will

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AustinC, Nov 9, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2020
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    104
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Thanks for that quote from Josephus. I wasn't aware of it.

    Balaam is certainly one of those figures that is hard to come to grips with. I am so glad that God places men like him in the Bible, and does not hide them.

    Quantrill
     
  2. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    18
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Adam "saw himself from outside himself" when he named the animals and realized he wasn't like them and saw there was not a "help meet for him." He "saw himself from outside himself" at the moment he first saw Ishshah, recognized her as bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh, and named her after himself.

    Adam's fear of judgment for disobedience (hence hiding) says nothing at all about losing his desire to know God. Not sure what Bible you're using but in mine when God called, Adam responded; he wasn't unable to hear and answer God's call. God didn't have to regenerate him before he could talk again. He didn't say, "Leave me alone, I have no desire to know you anymore." Adam said, "I was afraid and hid because I knew I was naked." He knew the fig leaves wouldn't cut it in the presence of God. That's not inability or lack of desire to know God; that is consciousness of disobedience, recognition of lack of righteousness, and consequent fear of impending judgment. Sin, righteousness, and judgment - sounds familiar (John 16:8). Adam confesses his sin to God, judgment is dispensed, and the couple then receives and accepts the sacrificial covering for their nakedness that God provides (Genesis 3:21).

    I'm unconcerned what the "I am of Calvin" types have to say - or not say - on pretty much any topic. As a side note, "give up" in the first person singular or plural is utterly foreign and unknown to Marines.
     
  3. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    96
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Blessings. You are free to think what you will and I have no hard feelings.

    The reason why Adam (imo the hardest evidence for total depravity), is left out from the hyper Calvinist argument is because of their preconceived philosophical prejudice that the elect are saved prior to accepting the gospel.


    Blessings
     
  4. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    96
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Man I’m good


    Blessings
     
  5. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    18
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, if I were HC I would suggest that Adam and Eve were a unique case, and that their fall and restoration never interrupted their status as elect; but of course I'm not.

    I am happy to point out that Genesis says nothing at all about Adam getting the gospel or accepting it, much less being elect. Solid biblical theology is built on clear Scriptural statements, not fuzzy human inferences. That's why I don't buy the manufactured notion of individual election to salvation prior to birth, nor do I think the Bible defines "total depravity" the way Calvinists do. Not one of the five points holds up to the demand for an unambiguous Scriptural statement of its truth.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,696
    Likes Received:
    881
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You seem to hold your self-made theories on a high pedestal. Any reason for such high self-esteem? So far, you have provided weak exegesis.
     
  7. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    96
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Obviously a strong thinker. But I don’t think you are as wise as you think you are. For example, you do not know what the unpardonable sin is nor can you find it in the prophets but I do, and can.

    What do you think about my observation and guess about you. No hard feelings of course. No body else here can do these either.


    Blessings
     
  8. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    18
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Weak exegesis would be claiming that Jesus told His listeners to "strive to enter" into eternal salvation in Luke 13:24, thus having Jesus promote salvation through personal effort.
     
  9. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    18
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You seem to be changing the subject away from Adam; it appears you have no answer to the points I raised regarding the details of the biblical account. Crickets?
     
    #129 Tsalagi, Dec 20, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  10. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    96
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Why do you waste God’s time with your baby food dissertations on free will? This thread will end and you will be on the next one. Again.

    As suspected, God has withheld from you the deeper things of his word because of your pride. Again, no hard feelings. Only observations.


    Blessings
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,696
    Likes Received:
    881
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is that what you taught from that verse. I cannot recall as you don't quote the passage.
     
  12. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    18
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So that's a "no" on dealing with the text of Genesis 3, substituting an excessive use of second person pronouns for looking at the content of the Word itself.
    1 Timothy 6 regards, adios.
     
  13. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    18
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The passage (Luke 13:24) is in blue, meaning you can click to read it and quoting it is unnecessary. Our friend Van insists that Jesus is speaking of eternal salvation in that verse, and I have contested his assertion with extensive exegesis. I also provided an exegetical understanding of Adam hiding in the garden above, to which you offer no response. You accuse me of "weak exegesis" without citing any passage or example at all.
     
  14. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    96
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    [​IMG]


    Blessings
     
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,696
    Likes Received:
    881
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What does it have to do with Balaam and free will?
     
  16. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    31,596
    Likes Received:
    1,561
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Six hour warning
    This thread will close no sooner than 7pm EST / 4 pm PST
     
  17. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    18
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You posted nine claims based on Adam in this thread, and when you finally got around to giving your supposed scriptural support for them I answered with exegetical rebuttals. Which one of these can you demonstrate to be "weak exegesis"? As I said, "I also provided an exegetical understanding of Adam hiding in the garden above [to Sai], to which you offer no response."
     
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,696
    Likes Received:
    881
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Tsalagi, I answered all nine.
    The fact that you cannot accept my answer is purely your problem, not mine.

    You answered an opinion about Adam in the garden. It's certainly your opinion and you are free to hold it.
     
  19. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    18
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Proof-texting is not persuasive, and your lack of response to the examination of the passages you cited indicates there are significant weaknesses in what you claim as scriptural support.

    Funny how nobody who shares your view wants to talk about fallen Adam's unassisted response to God's call in the garden.
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,696
    Likes Received:
    881
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Tsalagi, you are now making excuses for your legalism and your demand of free will despite the fact that the Bible never teaches free will.
    I adjure you to go read through the Bible once again.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...