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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Aug 25, 2020.

  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I found this portion of a Baptist church constitution

    This church may withdraw from affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention by a vote of two-thirds of the resident membership; provided that, in the event such vote is less than unanimous, the property of the church shall remain vested in the group in the church desiring to retain its affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention; provided further that in all matters relating to its internal affairs the church remains and shall be an autonomous body.

    SECTION 9. Only those 21 years or older may vote on legal matters.

    Thoughts -?

    Have you seen interesting points of a church constitution?
     
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I was a member of a church - when voting on a pastor - a 3/4 vote was needed.
    If a unaminious vote was not achieved - a second vote would be taken.


    The purpose was that those who did not vote for the pastor - would be given the opportunity to do so
    in order to show that they would be willing to now show support. In addition, the candidate could be informed that a unanimous vote was taken
     
  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I like the age standard. I’ve been in churches where little children were allowed to vote on all matters.
     
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  4. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    No sure what age but 14-15 is too young in most matters
     
  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    But shouldn't the voting age be 18?
     
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Probably. But as I was told years ago by a very wise man, “everything in a church constitution has a story behind it.”

    peace to you
     
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  7. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    I remember a SBC church voting to call a national stewardship director as pastor. He demanded a unanimous vote. There were 14 no votes on the balloting. So the church held a second vote by voice to make the call unanimous as had been demanded. You could still hear the 14 no votes, but the moderator ruled the Ayes have it, and the call was ruled unanimous.

    Not end of story: the dissenters let the candidate know what went down, and he withdrew from consideration, sending a strongly worded note that he would *never* consider a call manipulated by such tactics.
     
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  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I remember a professor telling the story of his first pastorate. After he left, the church changed the constitution to say they would never again call a seminary educated man to be pastor.

    Everything in the church constitution has a story. A collection of these stories would probably make an interesting book.

    peace to you
     
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  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    We used to do that. One vote was app 70/30. Chairman of deacons kept on until no opposition raised hands. Then told pastor vote was unanimous. Pastor never could figure out why so many people who "voted for him" gave him grief. He lasted 2 years. Then we did it again and again and again.
     
  10. Guvnuh

    Guvnuh Active Member
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    Many pastoral candidates state a percentage of the vote they want before becoming pastor.
    Some want 85%, others 90 or 95.
    We’ve never had a pastor receive 100% and we’ve never taken more than one vote.
     
  11. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Key word "demanded"
    IMHO - if he demanded a unanimous vote - then that sounds like a dictator to me. - I probally would have voted "NO" on each and every ballot - and with explanation.
     
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I had a pastor tell me that you can tell what kind of problems a church has had based on what was written in the Constitution! - thus the story
     
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    He actually said he would not come unless the call was unanimous. I interpreted that as a "demand".

    Another church I was a member of wanted a seminary-trained pastor. Their best candidate had not yet graduated from seminary but said he was working on his degree (external, by mail at that time), so they called him in anticipation of his eventually completing the seminary degree.

    Turned out, however, that he had only completed one "free" warm-up course with that seminary and that had been years ago, with no movement to even take another course. When asked about it later, his excuse was he was too busy getting the church into a building program to worry about that now....but the church kept him anyway.
     
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    So looking back - did he do a good job?
     
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    He got the building program started, stayed a couple of years, then headed for bigger pastures, leaving the church holding the bag for massive debt (you've heard this story before, right?)
     
  16. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I have a bit of a problem with the two tiered "Body of Christ". Someone is "saved enough" to be a member of the Body of Christ, but not saved enough to be allowed to function as part of the Body ... sort of a spare foot to be used after it has aged a another decade?

    Why not just adopt an Elder-led Model then?

    Baptists are either a priesthood of ALL believers or we are not, and the "Priesthood" is either qualified and to be trusted to be guided by the Holy Spirit or it is not. If you are not prepared to welcome them into the Body, then don't Baptize them into the Body.

    (Just my opinion).
     
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  17. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Agree man preaching to the choir

    Problem Baptists baptize just about anyone 4, 5, 6 yrs old ok. Question:
    Do we want 7-8 children under 11 yrs old deciding whether or not to keep the pastor? Or 14? Or 9?

    Do we want 3-5 kids under 13 deciding on the Pastors pay?

    Do you want 4-6 kids under 14-16 yrs old voting on a constitutional matter regarding legal issues in the church?

    Ive seen it happen in a church that got the vote out because the DOM got involved in an internal church matter and instigated a stink that got a good man canned for no reason

    Thats why I personall go with an elder model

    JMO
     
  18. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Another thing i had a professor hold out his left arm straight from his body to the side and said I do not believe in baptizing babies.

    That would seemingly infer at leasr what? 12-13 yrs old before we should baptize- according to him? BTW, I am close to 17 or 18 anyways

    Think about that in your average Baptist Church! Esp Megas.
     
  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    "One size fits all" is hard. I have met 10 year olds that I would trust and 30 year olds that I would not (to have a genuine saving faith).

    It was a very hard decision for my own daughter who was probably ready before she was 10 years old (having read the Bible twice on her own by then). I decided that I was not going to suggest anything until she wanted to do it. I would answer her questions when she asked them. When she actually started talking about wanting to get Baptized, we went through the Heidelberg Catechism together and looked up all the verses to confirm if they were telling the truth about what God says. When she finished, I baptized her (at about 13 years old).

    To answer your earlier questions, Yes, I would trust her to vote to keep or remove a pastor and she would probably show more spiritual insight and less "click" prejudice than the average church member.
     
  20. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Similiar story here, but you and I know that our daughters are not the norm.

    What about the average person in the pew?

    Only playong devils advocate here

    We prob agree more than you think maybe?
     
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