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Baptist Traditions? Drinking alcohol & dancing

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by KPBAP, Sep 3, 2005.

  1. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    The bible is covered with wornings about strong drink, why would one of Gods chidren even want to take that chance. You can not be a good wittness for christ with a bottle in your hand ,infact I willsay you will hinder Gods work if you try to be a wittness while drinking .I'll go one further and say most don't have christ in mind when having a drink or two.
     
  2. DesiderioDomini

    DesiderioDomini New Member

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    well except that he drank alcohol

    and Paul recommended it for calming stomachs

    and Jesus was accused of being a drunkard for always hanging out with those who drank

    and we know he drank alcohol too

    so it would appear that Jesus was able to do it.

    and before you say something like "it wasnt really alcohol, it was more like grape juice"


    this is wishful thinking. if it was grape juice, then how did it get people drunk?

    thing is, if all other areas of your life were Christ mirroring, then the fact that you drink in moderation would not hinder your witness.

    The fact that people would try to defame you doesnt make their words right!
     
  3. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    WELL,my Christian brother you need to be very careful about saying that Jesus drank strong drink ,you sould study a bit more then come back and talk. JESUS DRANK NEW WINE, LOOK IT UP.
    As for being a witness for Christ when your drinking just think about that one for a while then pray about it for a while. Then if you still beleive that you can wittness for Christ, just walk into the nearest bar or even restaurant grab yourself a bottle of beer or glass of wine and start witnessing. See how far you get!I'm think'in not 2 far. I drank for 25 years and I sometimes did run across some friut cake ,some nut that thought they could witness while drinking .Not to your suprise I'm sure it didn't work.You may very well spend the rest of your life trying to justify a drink here and there but it won't change the fact that if you choose to drink you most likely well be a stumbling block some time in your life.
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    SAMPLEWOW says:
    SAMPLE, what does this prove?

    New wine can cause drunkeness:

    Acts 2
    12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
    13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
    14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
    15 For these are not drunken as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

    I'm not trying to promote anything just curious about your assumption that new wine is non-alcoholic although Peter does makes the point that it's too early in the day for them to have been drinking long enough for the weak new wine to take effect.

    But, IMO, There is only one valid reason for a Christian in the American culture to abstain from alcohol (apart from medicine):

    Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

    HankD
     
  5. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    HankD, If you go back to verse 11 these people were amazed but in doubt because these known drunkerds were speaking in there tongue. And they were NOT drunk and there isn't anyplace in the BIBLE that you will find anyone drunk on NEW wine,search please search . New; means new .No place will you fine the word new meaning alittle bit old,new means new. So I can't help but come to the conclusion that new wine means UNfermented wine. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this for you .
    You have already pointed out the problem in bold[;Others" MOCKING "said], . Have you ever known anyone to make sense when there mocking.Satan was the one pushing these people along . This thing called ALcohol has been used by Satan to split Gods people for many years, you would think after all this time we would learn.
     
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Only in this country and only since prohibition.

    I disagree with your analysis of Acts 19 SAMPLE the plain and simple fact is that they thought the apostles were drunk on "new" wine. They were mocking what they thought was gibberish.

    There is no possible way to store grape juice without refrigeration for more than 2-3 days without measurable fermentation taking place,
    in fact it starts immediately as in yeast bread.

    There is nothing unclean in and of itself.

    Mark 7
    14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
    15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

    However the reason I have practiced abstinence is because of another reason which I have already mentioned.

    On the other hand, did you know that some Baptists are offended by the use of grape juice for communion and insist on the use of fermented wine for communion?

    HankD
     
  7. RIGHT ON Hank [​IMG]

    Europe has hardly any problems with alcohol.
    It is a part of their everyday life. Even kids drink wine at a young age. The Bible is for every country and for all cultures. So to say any kind or any amount of alcohol is wrong. IS WRONG.

    Too much of anything is wrong !
     
  8. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    Well, Ithank God that I,ve got school work to do for my doctrine class. I will say just before I leave though at least one of the statments you write RfW has to be wrong. I know a missionary in;yangon,Myanmar. His name isTYA NYAN OR" Sonny" he said that the children in his country start drinking at a very young age as well. He just got his first bible 3 years ago .he's been a paster for many years. He said it's destoying his country. I have partied with a lot of people from Europe in Sturgis,South D.they were probably the most libral bunch I've ever been around.
    AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE WE WILL SERVE THE LORD.
     
  9. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    RFW,

    I agree with Sample, how can you say that Europe has hardly any problems with alcohol?
    Do you mean that they don't SEE any problems with it? Or do you mean that they don't HAVE any problems with drunkenness? I mean, do you really think that they don't have alot of the problems associated with drunkenness as we do here......drunk driving, fighting, violence against women, etc?
     
  10. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    By the way ,Ibeleive your statment true ;TOOmuch of anything is wrong , but my family doesn't seem to mind me carrying around this extra 20 pounds. On the other hand Ido remember staying far away when I drank.
     
  11. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    Sample brings up a point which I think many of us are trying to express but not getting across very well yet.

    If you eat too much, yes you hurt your own self by gaining a few pounds which you need to work off with some exercise. On the other hand, if you DRINK too much (which many of us have said is where the sin comes in) then violence against other people is more likely to occur, drunk driving being only one of them. Not to mention the many other sins that one starts to indulge in when one's inhibitions are repressed by alcohol. Drunkenness leads to doing absolutely stupid things which can lead to other sins with very long-lasting consequences.
    I think most of us, if not all, who are on the negative side here have this thought in mind. Weve said often already that our problem is in the excess. BUT, the excess never happens if the first drink never happens.

    Sample has a testimony of personal experience which leads him to the belief that any alcohol will take him down a road which leads to the "excess point."

    No offense, Sample, but I don't want that testimony myself, so Im joining him on the road away from alcohol.

    Its ok with me to not have any. I don't mind. I don't feel like Im missing anything.
     
  12. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    bapmom,You need to bring bap dad to the computer screen.


    bapdad ,your wife here seems to be the smartest one out of this bunch Ithink you should give her a great big kiss and tell her just how much you appeciate her and how thankful you are thatshe knows how to make sense.

    No offence taken I'm glad you haven't traveled the same roads I have,and as long as God allows me to tell others about the dangers I'm going to.
     
  13. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    he did Sample.

    Thank you =)
     
  14. Sorry Samplewow, But I do not think INDIA is a good example or any other third world country for that matter on the proper use of alcohol.
    I am talking about France, Italy, Germany and such. They are NOT overweight like Americans. And NO considering the percentage of people that DO drink they have a lower percentage that have a problem. Because of their outlook ( view ) and upbringing on food and alcohol. MODERATION is the key in these countries !

    They are not taught in India how to respect alcohol in moderation,like these Europian countries, who enjoy it with their meals, like those in America would enjoy SODA.

    The reason alcohol is abused so much in America and other countries such as third world countires is Alcohol is used as a CRUTCH to ease the pain of those hurting and living in POVERTY.

    The Jews in the Bible in the Old Testament and the New, were never forbidden Alcohol ( wine )
    Much was said about TOO much drink, but not DRINK as a whole.

    More was said about not eating Pork ,Birds, Insects, and a bunch of other things. Check the book of LEVITICUS. BUT NO MENTION OF WINE OR ALCOHOL

    I don't care how much you try and SPIN this subject. What is wrong for you isn't wrong for another and visa versa. ROMANS chapter 14

    Bottom line everything in moderation is RIGHT anything in EXCESS is WRONG
     
  15. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    R FROM W, Youare totally missing the point of anything being said here .please Ibeg you to read what bapmom has said ; then go pray about it then come back tell me that youv'e prayed and then let's talk. I do however need to lose this 20 pounds because Ifeel fat! good nite ! GOD BLESS !


    I'm going to go pray and ask God to remind me why I'm here. just one more thing,just to let you no Ido read my bible .Leviticus 10:9 says;Do not drink wine nor strong drink........... lest ye die: goodnight,sleep tight,may you dream dreams of streets of gold.
     
  16. The only area I think your point fits in our culture for the unsaved and saved, is this.

    I personally feel that young people are wise and better off to NEVER touch alcohol, cigaretts, weed or pills. That way you stop the addiction head on, if one has the propensity for it. Or if someone has had a history of ABUSING these things, then he is best to stay away for good.

    That said if someone like me and my husband in our forties and fifties. Has NEVER in our life had a problem with ALCOHOL, then as a Christian I see NO Harm in having a drink ( not that we do, but if we did so what ?)once in awhile at some event, actually we have done that at weddings. It is NOT SIN or wrong and as far as our testimony, it will not be affected. Being WEIRD doesn't help our witness thats for sure.

    Our families and unsaved friends KNOW us enough to know we do not have a problem with Alcohol.
    I have also realized many unsaved have reservations about Christains who think EVERYTHING is a SIN. so they could care less to have what you have, a God who says everything is WRONG. It can actually be a henderance to one getting saved.

    PAUL wrote in 1 COR. 9:19

    For though I am FREE from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might WIN them. And to the Jew I became a Jew, that I might WIN Jews; to those who are under the law, to those who are WITHOUT THE LAW, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, that I might WIN those who are without the law.

    And so on and so on he keeps going !
    Get the point ?

    [ September 11, 2005, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: RightFromWrong ]
     
  17. Samplewow WRONG again you took that WAY out of contect.

    LEV. 19:8 The Lord then spoke to Aaron, saying " Do not drink wine or strong drink, neither you nor your sons with you, WHEN you come into the TENT ( Tabernacle ) of meeting, so that you may not die-it is perpetual statute throughout your generations- and so as to make a distinction between the HOLY and the Profane, between the CLEAN and the unclean ".

    There were very strick rules when anyone went into the Holy places of worship, even their dress had to be a certain way. God didn't want that which was unclean brought into his Holy place.

    Please be careful you don't qoute verses out of context. I hope you will learn this valuable principle of hermaneutics.
     
  18. Gentle_Pilgrim

    Gentle_Pilgrim New Member

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    More was said about not eating Pork ,Birds, Insects, and a bunch of other things. Check the book of LEVITICUS. BUT NO MENTION OF WINE OR ALCOHOL

    >> A friend who graduated from a seminary some years ago told me that in seminary he learned a hermaneutics principle: an argument from silence is at best weak.
     
  19. Well the Bible says quit a bit about not Being DRUNK with Wine or alcohol. Both in the Old Testament and the New Testament. So it not like the Bible is SILENT on the subject, far from it.

    The Bible is clear that drinking wine isn't wrong but being DRUNK is ;)
     
  20. emeraldctyangel

    emeraldctyangel New Member

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    My experience is mine.

    I grew up surrounded by addicts to all sorts of things, of every stripe. Statistics show that one parent being an addict gives a 40% chance to the child of that addict. Factor in two parents who like to party, and a few cousins, grandpa, and an aunt or two, and well, I fear I might be doomed (LOL).

    It would be accurate to say there prob isnt a minute of every day that goes by that someone isnt pointing at someone else and saying, "Well she is doing it". Excuses are typical if anything, and if you really want to be better than the average bear, really want to live the life God meant for you to live, then there is only one way to do it. Listen and follow directions. Besides, if I can do it, anybody can, I am merely one woman. I highly doubt people are watching you so intently to see your next misstep. If so, I would imagine there would be a lot of people emulating you the next time you snapped at someone in anger or decided to skip the chores and relax. In the end, people do whatever they can get away with - regardless of who is doing what they are told.

    I think your use of the words 'being a stumbling block' is a little off. No offense, but youve not got the ways of Satan (as a temptor), and as a Christian, you have the power of Jesus Christ to eliminate the devil from your life by just saying so (underscoring of course, the faith one has to have first). If you really are living the life that God has chosen for you, it shows. No stumbling blocks or excuses are able to be derived from your actions. That is just the way I live it.

    In God's Love,
    Lisa
     
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